In addition to the biker he has the gun with finger on the trigger pointed towards, there is a line of traffic passing to the riders right that is directly in the line of fire should the weapon discharge for any reason.

quote:

In addition to the biker he has the gun with finger on the trigger pointed towards...

I advise you to watch the video again, not that it matters since he shouldn't have drawn, but his finger is on the frame the entire time.

I ride with foam earplugs under my full face Shoei and it's all I can do to hear people that are pretty much yelling into the side of my helmet. I can hear car horns and emergency vehicles just fine. Voices sound like the adults in Charlie Brown. Add an engine and other outside noise, you may as well be yelling at a wall.

I have an issue with a road raging traffic stops resulting in gun being drawn. No credentials shown, verbal confirmation that he is LEO well into the conversation. The only valid excuse for having a gun drawn in this instance is if the guy on the bike was waving a gun of his own around. Speeding could have been an issue (haven't seen any reports of actual radar readout showing speed) but it wouldn't constitute being accosted on the street like this.

The cop actually put more people in danger than the guy on the bike. He basically walks up making demands while waving a gun with nothing to identify him as LEO. Think of what could have happened if the rider was a CCW holder that drew and fired at the cop thinking it was an attempted bike theft or straight up armed robbery. The people surrounding the incident could have been hurt in an exchange of gunfire over some minor infraction such as speeding. Before walking up, the cop had everything he needed from the guy on the bike. A plate number, description of the bike, and the rider would produce the same results as getting the guys license. He didn't even need to get out of his car.

Light bars in cars should automatically be associated with police? Come on folks, I can get them on Amazon all day long, SEE HERE. Too easy for someone to put them up and use them impersonating someone of authority.

Regardless of whether people feel this was a set up of the cop in question, he took the bait! He showed his ass and will likely lose his credentials that he never showed.

Question for anyone who thinks it was okay for the officer to pull his weapon. Was the guy willing to shoot a douche-bag on a motorcycle for speeding? Or just throwing his weight around to intimidate the rider into compliance? Either shows a very large lack of professionalism and would result in you or I going to jail if we were the ones that did it!

Another question for the legal experts here (or anyone else who likes to pretend they are ): Was the guy on the bike afforded sufficient opportunity to provide his ID without the cop actually saying he was LEO? It would seem to me the cop may have performed an illegal search by going in after it.

quote:

Originally posted by mutedblade:

Regardless of whether people feel this was a set up of the cop in question, he took the bait! He showed his ass and will likely lose his credentials that he never showed.

Question for anyone who thinks it was okay for the officer to pull his weapon. Was the guy willing to shoot a douche-bag on a motorcycle for speeding? Or just throwing his weight around to intimidate the rider into compliance? Either shows a very large lack of professionalism and would result in you or I going to jail if we were the ones that did it!

His badge was clipped on his pants.



And has there been anyone in this thread who said he thought it was okay for the officer to have his gun drawn? I must've missed it.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
His badge was clipped on his pants.



And has there been anyone in this thread who said he thought it was okay for the officer to have his gun drawn? I must've missed it.

Nobody has explicitly said it but I got the feeling that some are giving the LEO more leeway because he's a cop and that's how SigForum rolls sometimes. As to the badge clipped onto a pocket, I just don't know how I would see IT over the gun that was pointing at me. Scrutinize every frame of the video in slow motion if you want, but real time, there's not a chance in hell I would catch that. Personally, I don't count that as sufficient identification.

If it was sufficient, why not lead with the badge and not the gun?

Yeah - if there is a gun pointed at me, I'm watching the gun and the guys face. I'm not busy looking at his pants...

I think the kid was speeding and saw the cop flip the lights on - he then pulled up to the light at a reasonable speed after flipping the camera on; and acted all surprised when the cop walks up to him.

I still think the cop deserves suspension and re-training or a demotion or something significant.

Ooh, he had the badge out. You got to be kidding me. Look at the video in real time. The stupid badge is way down in his pants, and on the right side. The instant he walked up, he immediately turn to his right (that less than a microsecond) and stayed that way the entire time. Who is going to notice the badge, especially with a gun pointing at you?

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Ooh, he had the badge out. You got to be kidding me. Look at the video in real time. The stupid badge is way down in his pants, and on the right side. The instant he walked up, he immediately turn to his right (that less than a microsecond) and stayed that way the entire time. Who is going to notice the badge, especially with a gun pointing at you?

Jesus, I'm not justifying anything this retard did. I'm just correcting people who said he had nothing identifying him as a cop. Why is everyone so darn touchy? Goodness.

A detective doing traffic stops?
What, no major crimes to investigate?

I consider myself pro-law enforcement, but wow.

I'll be interested to hear why the detective thought he needed to approach with his weapon pointed at the bike rider.

quote:

Originally posted by mod29:
A detective doing traffic stops?
What, no major crimes to investigate?

I consider myself pro-law enforcement, but wow.

I'll be interested to hear why the detective thought he needed to approach with his weapon pointed at the bike rider.

I think you'll get to read that in the transcript of the civil suit which surely will follow!

I was finally able to watch the second longer video that was posted in the thread. A few IMHO:

- The officer does in fact identify himself, but should have done that immediately

- A firearm was probably an unnecessary escalation

- I personally don't consider a drawn firearm 'use of force', however it does tend to be influential

- I thought the bike rider was pretty resonable although clearly scared specifically in hte first few minutes, hard to blame him.

- The officers vehicle was clearly displaying red/blue flashing lights, perhaps not visable in the bikes mirror, I don't know. We also don't know when the officer activated them.

If this is common in that county as the video alleges, then they probably have a bigger problem. Otherwise if there are no similar incidents in the officers history it should be treated for what it is. If there are clearly stronger discipline is in order.

As always, it would be nice to have both sides to analyze, but we do what we can with what is provided...

I have not worked as a road cop since the 70's, BUT, back then, if you were involved in a incident significant enough to point a weapon, it ended with someone in handcuffs and the station and plenty of documentation. That protects both the officer and the perp-both "sides" get a chances for cooler heads to review the incident.

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
As a side note I'm surrpised the 'officer' didn't allow the guy to remove his helmet. How else would he know if the photo on the ID is the guy behind the helmet?

I'm in on this part. When I'm out, it's a full face helmet and sunglasses too. I imagine there's very little of my face showing, for someone to compare to a photo on an ID.

I'm also in on the hard-to-hear statement. I, too, use foam ear plugs when riding. Helmets protect the noggin, but not necessarily the hearing.

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
I was finally able to watch the second longer video that was posted in the thread. A few IMHO:

- The officer does in fact identify himself, but should have done that immediately

- A firearm was probably an unnecessary escalation

- I personally don't consider a drawn firearm 'use of force', however it does tend to be influential

- I thought the bike rider was pretty reasonable although clearly scared specifically in the first few minutes, hard to blame him.

- The officers vehicle was clearly displaying red/blue flashing lights, perhaps not visable in the bikes mirror, I don't know. We also don't know when the officer activated them.

If this is common in that county as the video alleges, then they probably have a bigger problem. Otherwise if there are no similar incidents in the officers history it should be treated for what it is. If there are clearly stronger discipline is in order.

As always, it would be nice to have both sides to analyze, but we do what we can with what is provided...

A drawn weapon (especially one pointed at you) is the penultimate step in USE OF FORCE. Think about what the next step is once a weapon has been drawn and aimed. At the very minimum, it was brought out to assert dominance of the situation. We should not be expected to deal with police officers at the end of a gun barrel. If we excuse this behavior once, we should excuse it every time. That would be a bad precedent to set. It's not really a "do it once, shame on you" kind of situation in my opinion. It is an officer bullying someone because they have a gun and the cop pretty much says that in the video. Referring to the 2nd video in the thread @ 1:30 guy on bike says "I am sorry, you have a gun on me" @ 1:31 cops says "yeah, you're right, because I am the police!"

From searching, it doesn't appear that a ticket was issued.
Wonder if any report of this was filed?

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Ooh, he had the badge out. You got to be kidding me. Look at the video in real time. The stupid badge is way down in his pants, and on the right side. The instant he walked up, he immediately turn to his right (that less than a microsecond) and stayed that way the entire time. Who is going to notice the badge, especially with a gun pointing at you?

Jesus, I'm not justifying anything this retard did. I'm just correcting people who said he had nothing identifying him as a cop. Why is everyone so darn touchy? Goodness.

Damn, man. Sounds like you're more touchy than the rest of us.

Group Hug!

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Ooh, he had the badge out. You got to be kidding me. Look at the video in real time. The stupid badge is way down in his pants, and on the right side. The instant he walked up, he immediately turn to his right (that less than a microsecond) and stayed that way the entire time. Who is going to notice the badge, especially with a gun pointing at you?

Jesus, I'm not justifying anything this retard did. I'm just correcting people who said he had nothing identifying him as a cop. Why is everyone so darn touchy? Goodness.

Damn, man. Sounds like you're more touchy than the rest of us.

Link to original video: https://youtu.be/XezC_IJVYLQ

Seems like a good way for an off duty cop to get shot. He didn't even have his badge out?! WTF

:edit: read the comments. Apparently the cop eventually ID'd himself. In my opinion the first few seconds are all that matters though.