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Member |
Sorry for the long post. I have been with my current employer for nearly 22 years. Started at the bottom and now run the entire department. Not a small company by any means but it is run like one, that I liked. Additionally, it was located where I needed to be, I have mostly felt secure, and it afforded me opportunities that I likely wouldn’t have gotten at larger places. But, for the industry and what I do, I am way under compensated both in wages and benefits. Because of the compensation, recent concerns about future stability, and life changes that no longer require me to stay in this area I decided it was time to explore. A larger company had an opening that I was qualified for and interested me. They also happen to employ an old coleuge at a high level. I reached out to him for some information and within a day was getting phone calls from the hiring manager. Ultimately I applied for the position and the processes started. I made it clear from the beginning that I still have an obligation to my current employer that I take seriously and that while I could probably be able to invest time during the day it would take coordination and planning... something they never seemed to respect. It seemed that they wanted me available for their every beck and call with no respect for my position. Anyway after two different interviews totaling 7 hours I was offered the position. However at the time of the offer, they didn’t have relocation information available so I didn’t have the whole package to review. While waiting for the relo information I countered the salary. Initially it seemed to be taken pretty well and didn’t “put them off”. To make this as short as possible I was told they would be in contact last Friday regarding the counter offer...not a peep. Near the end of Monday I emailed the recruiter asking if she had been able to find out anything and got a response asking if I was able to discuss Tuesday. I stated that I could but it needed to be at 0800 (they are an hour ahead, 0900 doesn’t seem unreasonable) or after 1700. The response was that they would call me after 1700... again not a peep. Now Wednesday has passed and still nothing. Maybe they have a valid reason for no contact. Maybe something I did turned them off and they are no longer interested in me. Maybe they are just that disorganized or so burdened with red tape that they can’t get anything done in a timely manner. But, regardless, I am now of the opinion that even if they come back and give me exactly what I asked for I don’t want to work for them. We are not high school kids. If you can’t be bothered to do what you say your going to do while you are trying to recruit me, why should I believe you will afterwords. Am I being unreasonable? Should I contact them again or wait their move (I don’t need to beg for a job)? Is it reasonable to expect a large corporation to contact me and let me know if they are no longer interested in employing me? ----------------------------------- | ||
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Man of few words |
Your not being unreasonable in wanting an answer, but in my time I've found that if the company doesn't want you they will just not respond to you. When I was laid off 4.5 years ago I went on multiple interviews. One of the interviews went really well and I was told I would definitely be called back. Of course I never heard from them again. A 2nd place I interviewed at the interview and tour went so well that the Director in the interview blew off the 2nd half of his day to talk with me. I left there expecting to hear that I had the job but never heard from them again. It sounds like you already know what to do but are torn. You should go with your gut and do what is best for you. The last thing I would recommended is be loyal to your company but be loyal to yourself 1st. | |||
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| His diet consists of black coffee, and sarcasm.  |
If they wanted you, they'd have told you, not string you along. I'll further bet that any attempt you make to contact them will also be blown off. Jerkoffs like this aren't people you'd want to work for anyway. Forget it and move on. | |||
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| I Am The Walrus |
Huge red flags there, IMO. If they're treating you like this now, imagine how much worse it will be when you're on their payroll... 2 interviews covering 7 hours? Was it an interview or interrogation? _____________ | |||
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| Member |
I guess the biggest thing I don’t understand is that they wanted me bad enough to make an offer. They wanted me bad enough to continue contact and provide the relo information after I countered. Then the communication stopped, sort of... the recruiter answered an email. She could have easily ignored it. The worst part of the whole deal is personnel. I want out of this shit hole I live in bad. A new job out of state would of required it. Unfortunately we bought back in the height of the real estate market and in a town that nothing sells. In spite of updates and years of payments (no equity loans or such) we still are upside down in the house. Only wat to get out of it now is to write a check and my wife will never go for it unless we have no choice. As long as I stay with my current employer I am stuck in Illinois. ----------------------------------- | |||
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| Member |
Pretty much. The first was 6 hours straight of face to face interviews. 2 board interviews and 2 one on ones. Pretty much answering the same stupid canned interview questions over and over. Second one was an hour (phone) with one of the gentleman who was “unavailable” during my face to face. ----------------------------------- | |||
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| Member |
My wife and I have made the corporate move from KPMG to Wamu To Russel To Chase To etc etc etc. My wife specifically has been heavily recruited. we have long distance relocated 5 times for different companies. 1) The person who initiates contact after the negotiations have started looses. Plain and simple. Wait, wait more, wait even more. Do not initiate contact after your counter. They need to come to you, if you go to them they will not accept the counter. 2) Corporate hirings for local transitions job to job company to company take 3-6 months of scheduling. This is part of the reason In house hiring is often preferred. They only take 2-3 months. Outside hires at higher or specific skill levels are a bitch. This gets bumped to 6-9 months for long distance hires. Our last transition started in January, accepted at the end of July, started in September. That is with my wife being recruited by four Senior VP's. Be patient. then be more patient. 3) Home relo packages are a bitch to get, assign, clear and negotiate. Not only have we had 5 ourselves, but my wife has put together a half dozen on the offer side of the hiring process. Minimum they take 2 weeks to compile, 2 more weeks to get through hr, 2 weeks to get through legal, than 2 weeks to get a response from your moving facilitator. Some times you will be offered cash payout you figure out the move, some times they cover everything in the move. We have done both equally. It really comes down to the type of move you are doing. Look closely at the home sale clauses. We typically push for one of two. (yes relo packages are negotiable more so than pay or hiring bonuses and often more lucrative to you) Either get a guaranteed buy out of your house after x number of days at the listed price given certain conditions or Get x % back for selling the home within x days of listing. We received 6% back for having a signed offer on our CT home in 30days. They paid realtor fees on top of that. Our first house in Portland was almost purchased at the full asking price by the by out clause after 90days. We had a buyer walk in and offer full price. So both have their benefits. look for clauses to pay your realtor fees if you rent your previous residence out for up to 2-3 years after you move. 4) read the packages carefully, make note of who your contacts are for the new company, transition relo coordinator, and both real estate agents in both places. Home relo's typically only come into play over 500 miles. Our last two relos were from Seattle to Norwalk ct in 2011, and from it to VA in 2014. we have 2 kids, dog, 3 cars etc. the move from Seattle was just over 140k not counting realtor fees. In that, it included 9 months of temp housing (x dollars a month). The relo to VA from it was well over 200k counting realtor fees, 6% kickback, temp living for 6 months (we used 2, took the rest as cash) realtor fees on the purchase. Storage, delivery, install of home goods. The thing I stress the most is be patient. this is a 1-year long process. If any of you are thinking of a long distance relo with families. Start the repairs on the home before interviewing. Get that knocked out of the way. Then once you have accepted an interview and have an offer. Get serious about waiting, playing your cards right and negotiating the hell out of it. I have lived in MT, AK, Or, Wa, Ct, Va, my wife can add CA to that. The world is too small to live in one place. See it all. Don't get too worried about how they are treating you now. The issue is that the hiring manager is not the one to put the offer together. So let me break it down. The hiring manager has their own workload plus hiring you. they make you an offer based on what their FTE headcount allows. That offer is a stock package put out by HR. HR has its own workload plus hiring you via the hiring manager with his workload. Once the Hiring manager has HR stock offer, he has to take it to his boss and get the budget approval for a relo package. That boss often has to go to his, to his, to the CFO. (not a big thing in large corps it is pretty standard) all of those people have their own workload + hiring you for this position. There are days in between for each response. Holidays count also, people have kids, kids are out on holidays, things get pushed back. You will never get paperwork on a Monday or Friday. You will never get paperwork on a day before a holiday weekend or the day after. just not going to happen they have enough work deadlines. Once the Hiring manager gets approval for a relo, your offer is now no longer out of the box HR offer. So HR has to get with the relocation provider, and legal to sort out the offer details. These folks, you guessed it has their own workload on top of hiring you. Once they hear back they will present the offer to the hiring manager who, you guessed it have more work because he still has not had you start yet. Once you counter it speeds up a bit, it will go hiring a manager to HR and his boss, From there yes or no, if yes it goes to relo corp, and legal, back to HR back to hiring manager then to you. | |||
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| Member |
very good info from DSgrouse I have been Fortune 50 for 20-ish years it's complicated - lots of layers, approvals, etc esp. the higher up the position and especially as pointed out - they are hiring from outside (you)... and not to be a jerk - but you probably aren't the most important / only issue they are dealing with currently be patient - I bet you hear from them within a week or so question - what's the status of a background check? ---------------------------------- Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. | |||
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| Ugly Bag of Mostly Water  |
You mentioned it's a large company. Perhaps when you countered, they have to run it by someone: HR, a hiring committee, a department head, etc., so it might take a little longer. Have you talked to your friend there? Endowment Life Member, NRA • Member of FPC, GOA, 2AF & Arizona Citizens Defense League | |||
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| Member |
The relo isn’t near that complex. Basically, you are a level x. here is our relo package that is available for that level. It includes some money for misc expenses, 30 days temp housing or money in lieu, and you can pick self move for x amount or we will pay a moving company to move 18,000 lbs of stuff. No realtors or any other housing considerations included. ----------------------------------- | |||
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| Member |
Hasn’t been started but is pretty simple. 10 criminal background and pre employment drug screen. ----------------------------------- | |||
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You'll Shoot Your Eye Out! |
Yes, it is. How people handle declines is important. You also might be dealing with an unorganized recruiter that doesn't actually report to the hiring manager...large corporations are notorious for this and they don't provide a great candidate experience always. | |||
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| Eschew Obfuscation |
Agreed. One truism I learned over the course of my career: If you get treated poorly during the interview process, you will be treated worse as an employee. I once interviewed with a large company. I was in Chicago and their HQ was in Dallas. They wanted me to fly down for the interview, which was fine. But, they said they were not set up to handle anything besides airfare. In other words, they were asking me to cover the cost of ground transportation, lodging, and meals for the trip to and from Dallas, and then submit my receipts for reimbursement. This should have been a huge red flag to me. I ignored it and took the job. While I did (eventually) get all my expenses reimbursed, pretty much everything else about the job (amount of travel, job responsibilities, benefits, etc.) was a lie. I quit after 3 months. _____________________________________________________________________ “One of the common failings among honorable people is a failure to appreciate how thoroughly dishonorable some other people can be, and how dangerous it is to trust them.” – Thomas Sowell | |||
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| Member |
Been on both sides of this with a Fortune 100 company. HR is capable of screwing up a wet dream. I'd be patient and keep an open mind. Sometimes takes a bit to work a counter through the system. I might reach out to the guy you know if you know him well enough. Just to see if it's normal for them. I've had HR \Corporate drive an offer into hold status. Could be a hiring freeze or a restructuring. Crap like that can come out of the blue. | |||
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| Member |
Seems like this is the most likely scenario. Got an email late at night the other night...”I’m so sorry. Got tied up and blah, blah, blah.” They are consistent though. Was supposed to have gotten a call yesterday and, again, nothing. ----------------------------------- | |||
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| His diet consists of black coffee, and sarcasm. |
Classic bullshit excuse. | |||
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| Member |
The corporate world is simply awash with incompetence and indifference. You can reasonably double check with a "What's happening?" In the end, just do what is really best for you. No need to burn any bridges in either direction. It's all "Thanks, have a nice day." I learned when I graduated college, that recruiters continue to "recruit" even when there really is no actual job. Because that is THEIR job..."recruiting". How else are they going to fill up the day? "Crom is strong! If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, 'What is the riddle of steel?' If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me." | |||
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| Member |
I'm not a recruiter, but since I work for an IT Services company, we recruit a lot of people. While it doesn't happen often, it happens often enough where someone will accept a position and then never show up because they get a better job offer after they accepted the first. Or, they will start a new job and within the first month resign because they get a better job offer somewhere else. Knowing, this recruiters will keep the other candidates on the hook for as long as possible so that they don't have to start the process from scratch if the first candidate bails on them. | |||
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| Member |
In this day and age, yes, it is. There is no value for them in doing this. If fact, it is a liability for them. The best you can hope for is to get an e-mail three or four months later telling you that while your qualification were strong, they have decided to move on with other candidates. | |||
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| Member |
DGrouse, I just can't help but wonder what is it that you do that puts you in such high demand that a company is willing to move you across the country. | |||
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