I have read through the posts in this thread and I have been gathering my thoughts deciding on whether or not I would post an opinion from the other side. Well...

First let me say I appreciate and respect all of your opinions. I enjoy being a part of this place and hope that I am considered a liked and respected member.

With that let me say that the Texas abortion law is not something I can support as it stands.

I am a female, a republican, a nurse and I do walk the line between pro choice and also a heavy distain for abortion as a means of birth control.

However, I cannot accept the six week limit and no exceptions for rape or incest. I would not normally share this with a public forum, but I hope that it will broaden your views of the law's repercussions as it now stands. As a survivor of both rape and incest as a child I can say without a doubt that had I become pregnant I would not have known until it was far past the six week limit. Being forced to carry a child from such traumatic abuses would have been something I would not have come back from. It would have been like reliving those traumas for life.

You gentlemen may not be aware that 6 weeks is not enough for a girl to notice something is amiss. Stress, malnutrition, over exercising, medical conditions and more can cause a girl to miss her period or to even have the length of time between them extended regularly. So if a young girl or woman misses a period and doesn't figure it out until 8 wks they are out of luck?

I also take issue with it being solely the woman’s responsibility. For those of you who are so steadfastly pro-life I would hope that you would then fully expect the man to abstain before marriage, or if wanting to be sexually active to be 100% responsible and get a vasectomy (completely reversible).

All of us good Christians know that sex outside of marriage is considered immoral and a sin after all. So, if we go the route abortion being a sin or against God we should probably remember that. Unless we are all perfect in the eyes of God perhaps we should not be casting stones?

I am grateful that I got through that period of my life without the government telling what I could and couldn’t do with my body with regard to pregnancy. While I have never had an abortion and I am extremely responsible it is upsetting to me that women may no longer have that option. Again I state firmly I have a real problem with using it as birth control. But, for those that do not abuse it and have other serious circumstances which require it I will stand with them always.

Food for thought. Take it or leave it as you wish. Again I respect you all.

And, I am praying for this country as it feels pretty dark right now in many ways.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: P226RN,

Not a single man in this thread would tolerate even 1min of the government telling them they had to have an unwanted child if it were men who had children.

None of you, and you know it, too. Don't even bother... hypocrites, the whole lot of you. Indignant, bloviating, meddlesome, hypocrites, every man in this thread supprting this crazy Texas law.

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And, I am praying for this country as it feels pretty dark right now in many ways.

Battles will outstrip their own purposes. A lot of people in Texas politics have been swinging blind since the theft of the election.

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Originally posted by 46and2:
Not a single man in this thread would tolerate even 1min of the government telling them they had to have an unwanted child if it were men who had children.

None of you, and you know it, too. Don't even bother... hypocrites, the whole lot of you. Indignant, bloviating, meddlesome, hypocrites, every man in this thread supprting this crazy Texas law.

Bullshit, maybe people should take responsibility to make sure a baby is not conceived.
I guess you are not a fan of personal responsibily.
Guess who gets to pay for the "womans" decision with absolutely no say on wheter to keep the child or not?
Last time I checked it takes 2 to tango, why does the man have no say?
Yeah a "crazy law" trying to prptect the defenseless.

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Originally posted by 46and2:
Not a single man in this thread would tolerate even 1min of the government telling them they had to have an unwanted child if it were men who had children. None of you, and you know it, too.

The trick, man, is to not put yourself in such a position and don't tell me that's not possible or practical.

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Don't even bother... hypocrites, the whole lot of you. Indignant, bloviating, meddlesome, hypocrites, every man in this thread supprting this crazy Texas law.

46and2, this will surprise you, but I'm not going to tell you to stow it, or suggest you need to be careful or risk losing your posting rights, which is what any member who knows this forum would expect. You've been here a long time and we've already butted heads like that, and afterwards, I contacted you and spoke from the heart, and you came back.

I don't expect everyone here to agree with my position, especially in such a strongly-worded, no-holds-barred post, which was esentially a challenge from me. We can agree to disagree. You can stomp off if you want, but AFAIC, you're welcome here anytime.

There was a time, many years ago in this forum, that I would allow no discussion on the subject of abortion, because it was guaranteed to end in a dust-up. Lots of strong feelings on both sides. But, now, we discuss this subject whenever it comes up, and you may simply be trying to pull a John Wayne on your way out of here but if that's what you want, you're going to have to do it on your own

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Originally posted by 46and2:
Not a single man in this thread would tolerate even 1min of the government telling them they had to have an unwanted child if it were men who had children.

None of you, and you know it, too. Don't even bother... hypocrites, the whole lot of you. Indignant, bloviating, meddlesome, hypocrites, every man in this thread supprting this crazy Texas law.

Don't you DARE imply I would murder a child if I was inconvenienced.

You don't know me. Yet, you slander me and roughly 50% of the US public, and a large proportion of us here on the Forum.

Straw man arguments and blanket statements are a tactic of the left. We are supposed to be above that.

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Originally posted by 46and2:
Not a single man in this thread would tolerate even 1min of the government telling them they had to have an unwanted child if it were men who had children.

None of you, and you know it, too. Don't even bother... hypocrites, the whole lot of you. Indignant, bloviating, meddlesome, hypocrites, every man in this thread supprting this crazy Texas law.

At what point do you consider a stopping point? Can you kill a baby as long as it's head hasn't passed through the birth canal? Can you do a "post-term" abortion based on a measurement of whether the infant can fully function on it's own? Can you do a "post-term" abortion to a teenager because it interferes with your life too much? (After all, your life - your choice!)

I don't think we can consider the subject as a moral decision - we human beings are too ignorant and too inconsistent to ever agree what moral values are. It tends to fall in the area of how we define behavior based on our expections of higher animal behavior for the survival of civilizations. Unless we can get an overwhelming percentage of humans to agree in one direction or other, there will be no basis to judge the "rightness' or "wrongness" of abortions.

It does challenge the mind, though, that civilization considers murdering a pregnant woman or killing a young child as horrendous crimes no matter whether it comes about because of extreme anger or extreme greed. Yet, for a mother-to-be, a matter of convenience or self-interest takes away the criminal nature of the act. Maybe "situational ethics" ...........

Perhaps the concept is far too radical and shocking, but, it is possible for a woman to avoid becoming pregnant.

Roughly 95% of all abortions are done to “remove an inconvenience”. Only about 5% have any validity as being for true health reasons, rape, or incest. The bottom line is assholes are too lazy to be bothered with contraception and treat abortion as a form of it.

Yes, it wasn't always that way, but it damn sure is now.

Most (not all) of the posts in this thread seem to assume that the woman is a willing participant in sex.

That is not always the case.

Do birth-control pills also prevent pregnancy from rape?

flashguy

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Originally posted by V-Tail:
Most (not all) of the posts in this thread seem to assume that the woman is a willing participant in sex.

That is not always the case.

The general felling here seems to be that women are breeding vessels. If they're pregnant they can no longer make informed decisions for themselves regarding their own body while in that state, regardless of how they arrived in that condition.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
Not a single man in this thread would tolerate even 1min of the government telling them they had to have an unwanted child if it were men who had children.

None of you, and you know it, too. Don't even bother... hypocrites, the whole lot of you. Indignant, bloviating, meddlesome, hypocrites, every man in this thread supprting this crazy Texas law.

I'm not a hypocrite...you can stow that crap right now. I've managed to go 36 years of life without creating an unwanted pregnancy. You know how I did that? By exercising self-control and only ever having sex with my wife. We waited till we got married, and then when she got pregnant, we had the kids. We wanted the kids. And then when we had as many as we thought we could realistically care for, I got a vasectomy. Maybe that makes me a unicorn here, but I doubt it...infidelity and promiscuity aren't universal masculine traits despite what our culture would like us to believe.

I have 4 kids. They're all mine, and I'm just as responsible for their welfare and upbringing as their mother. It's a responsibility that I not only accept, but cherish. And I'm very fortunate to have her as a partner in that endeavor.

I realize that some pregnancies occur without the mother's consent, and that's a horrible situation. It's a complex problem that I don't have an answer for. But the fact remains that a huge number of abortions occur for the sake of convenience....to simply absolve the sperm and egg donors of responsibility from the consequences of a choice that they made together. And that is straight-up murder.

I'm not saying I have all the answers...but you don't get to call me a hypocrite, either.

When I was younger and a discussion about abortion in cases of rape or incest came up, an older, wiser person said, "Why punish the unborn person who had nothing to do with those actions".

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Originally posted by 46and2:
Not a single man in this thread would tolerate even 1min of the government telling them they had to have an unwanted child if it were men who had children.

None of you, and you know it, too. Don't even bother... hypocrites, the whole lot of you. Indignant, bloviating, meddlesome, hypocrites, every man in this thread supprting this crazy Texas law.

Typical broad brush leftist tactic. "If you don't agree with my worldview they you are all guilty of whatever it is I accuse you of being guilty of."

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Originally posted by alptraum:

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Originally posted by V-Tail:
Most (not all) of the posts in this thread seem to assume that the woman is a willing participant in sex.

That is not always the case.

The general felling here seems to be that women are breeding vessels. If they're pregnant they can no longer make informed decisions for themselves regarding their own body while in that state, regardless of how they arrived in that condition.

Wow. Yet ANOTHER grossly-insulting blanket statement.

If you truly believe that, no wonder you are so angry.

quote:

Originally posted by alptraum:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
Most (not all) of the posts in this thread seem to assume that the woman is a willing participant in sex.

That is not always the case.

The general felling here seems to be that women are breeding vessels. If they're pregnant they can no longer make informed decisions for themselves regarding their own body while in that state, regardless of how they arrived in that condition.

A very typical puerile and wholly dishonest argument that completely ignores the life of the baby as if he or she were nothing but a disease to be cured if the mother decides so.

Frankly, whether the baby is the result of rape or not is irrelevant to the fact that that baby is a human being. I understand why abortionists conveniently ignore that truth, but that doesn't make it any less so. And it certainly doesn't make the act of murdering a baby any less reprehensible or wrong whatever the circumstances.

How many pregnancies are the result of rape? It would seem to me that it is a very, very small percentage of them. And in that case you would punish the child for the sins of his father. Not a great argument if you ask me.

I feel that people don’t understand the implications of this new law. First, the law does not ban abortions in Texas. Having an abortion and performing an abortion is still completely legal in Texas. The law allows anyone to bring a civil suit against anyone who aids or abets the performance of an abortion.

If this law is allowed to stand, it will have huge implications for gun rights in blue states. It won’t take long for Democrats to start passing laws that allows anyone to sue anyone aided or abetted the legal sale of a firearm that is used in a crime.