quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:


The Constituion does not permit forced sterilization.

Nor does it prohibit it.

I've always believed that a person should have autonomy as far as their body is concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by alptraum:
I've always believed that a person should have autonomy as far as their body is concerned.

I do, too.

It all comes down to whether you believe an unborn human is really a human.

In the case of abortion, a mother's 'autonomy' does NOT include the 'right' to murder her child.

quote:

Originally posted by alptraum:
I've always believed that a person should have autonomy as far as their body is concerned.

That sounds right, doesn't it? A person should be the arbiter of their own body. Yes, this must be correct. How can it be otherwise?

Well, if humans were conceived, carried to term and birthed outside the bodies of women (and men alike), then, the individual is making choices for the individual only. However, since this is not so, and since nature chose the female of our species for the RESPONSIBILITY of conception, incubation and birth, the absolute autonomy of the pregnant human female is voided during the period of pregnancy.

Human female: "My body, my choice"

Nature: "Your body, my choice"

I was raised as a Catholic. "Abortion is a sin" is what I was taught. As I matured, I moved away from Catholicism and developed my own pragmatic ideas on the subject. For many years, I was vehemently pro-choice. In the past couple of decades, I've slowly come to realize the problems with the philosophy of "my body, my choice" when it comes to abortion. Even if it weren't for the fact that women of today are using abortion as a means of birth control (instead of conventional, modern methods of contraception or *gasp* abstinence when one cannot afford to become or wish to become pregnant) I am now- and for the remainder of my days- completely opposed to the murder of innocents. The only pure humans are the ones in the womb or who have just come from the womb. They have no means of defense, no understanding of or even concept of danger. What if you had faced this danger? Who would have protected you? Every person who talks about "my body, my choice has already been born. Those who are sanctioning murder have already avoided this danger. This seems never to be considered. The unborn, however, have no voice.

If a woman's life is threatened by bringing a pregnancy to full term, abortion- if deemed viable- is justified. Other than that, aborting a pregnancy is first degree murder.

This philosophy of mine took me decades of life to arrive at, and I submit the full circle I have completed in it as evidence that I have considered both sides of the argument as closely as anyone else; more likely, even more closely than most.

Think of what's being done to countless human lives which shall never have a chance. In the fifty years since Roe v. Wade, we have become in this respect a deeply sick society, so much so that we consider it sane and just that human life can be conceived and then terminated on a whim. No one can make you see the truth of this if you choose to ignore the stark reality of it. Who among us would want to consider themself to be a murderer? And who among us would be willing to even consider this possibility, when we live in a society which not only permits this murder, but has codified it as the law of the land?

^^^Thank you for saying that.

Para that was Great you hit all the points. Abortion is just murder. VI

quote:

"My body, my choice"?

This slogan doesn't apply to vaxx mandates. They say whatever they need to at any time. Their beliefs have expiration dates that are so fluid the ocean looks solid.

Oh, and now that men can get "pregnant", the feminists can no longer shut us down in any female-related discussion with "shut up, you can't get pregnant" type tropes.

quote:

Originally posted by ChuckWall:

quote:

"My body, my choice"?

This slogan doesn't apply to vaxx mandates. They say whatever they need to at any time. Their beliefs have expiration dates that are so fluid the ocean looks solid.

Sure it does. Nobody's forcing anybody to get the vaccine. Putting pressure on through jobs and other things, sure, but it's not mandatory for anyone. You can quit your job and get another one. You can refuse to travel...the list goes on.

quote:

The only pure humans are the ones in the womb or who have just come from the womb. They have no means of defense, no understanding of or even concept of danger. What if you had faced this danger? Who would have protected you? Every person who talks about "my body, my choice has already been born. Those who are sanctioning murder have already avoided this danger. This seems never to be considered. The unborn, however, have no voice.

This is very well said and I couldn't agree more. As a father of four, the thought of aborting any of our children never even occurred to us. We didn't even have them do the test for down syndrome during the pregnancies as it didn't matter...that was our kid and we were going to love them regardless.

The me-first attitude of my generation (and those before and after) is just abominable. It's all about what is most convenient for me...getting to do what I want, when I want, how I want, without any regard for consequences, or how it impacts anyone else. We've stooped so low that we're even willing to murder children to support that disgusting, self-centered narcissism. And sadly, their sense of morality is so twisted that if you speak out against it, you're the bad guy for not supporting a woman's right to do whatever she wants.

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:

quote:

Originally posted by ChuckWall:

quote:

"My body, my choice"?

This slogan doesn't apply to vaxx mandates. They say whatever they need to at any time. Their beliefs have expiration dates that are so fluid the ocean looks solid.

Sure it does. Nobody's forcing anybody to get the vaccine. Putting pressure on through jobs and other things, sure, but it's not mandatory for anyone. You can quit your job and get another one. You can refuse to travel...the list goes on.

Really? Tell that to any military member. They can just quit. Right?

Yea, that’s a pretty dumb rationale. Court martial or vaccination. Pay the rent or vaccination. At a certain point it’s absolutely the same. Notice all the court cases that everyone quotes like some law professor are from decades or even a century ago. Maybe just maybe a new look at the concept is in order.

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:

quote:

Originally posted by ChuckWall:

quote:

"My body, my choice"?

This slogan doesn't apply to vaxx mandates. They say whatever they need to at any time. Their beliefs have expiration dates that are so fluid the ocean looks solid.

Sure it does. Nobody's forcing anybody to get the vaccine. Putting pressure on through jobs and other things, sure, but it's not mandatory for anyone. You can quit your job and get another one. You can refuse to travel...the list goes on.

Don’t be obtuse.

My wife and I have 2 children. We, like all of you parents, love them more than ourselves. Even the thought of murdering one of them in the womb makes me sick to my stomach.
Mike.

quote:

Originally posted by rburg:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:


The Constituion does not permit forced sterilization.

Nor does it prohibit it.

8th amendment. For a start.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:...
8th amendment. For a start.

Well, explain to me the castration both physical and chemical (drugs) to sexual offenders?

How is it possible if the 8th is the "start" of the prohibition?

And while we are all about the 8th, does it or does it not apply to the unborn, and if not, why not?

quote:

Originally posted by Orguss:
Can someone explain to me why Ginsberg is held up as a shining exmaple of what it is to be a female Supreme Court justice?

While the fact that she was a women is a factor, I do not believe it was the primary factor.

She was an outspoken proponent of liberal causes, at least in her later years on the bench. When liberals lost a case at SCOTUS, she would often write a dissenting opinion in attempt to explain why the liberal side should have won.

Liberals see these dissenting opinions as a roadmap that a future, more liberal court, can use to overturn their losses.

Any way, that is what I read as the explanation as to why she earned the nickname, Notorious R.B.G.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:

Well, explain to me the castration both physical and chemical (drugs) to sexual offenders?

How is it possible if the 8th is the "start" of the prohibition?

And while we are all about the 8th, does it or does it not apply to the unborn, and if not, why not?

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
And while we are all about the 8th, does it or does it not apply to the unborn, and if not, why not?

sigmonkey, individual rights, at least as I understand them, are defined as what the government can and cannot do to an individual. Rove v. Wade did not address whether or not a unborn child had rights under the law. It said that the government cannot interfere with a woman's right to end a pregnancy.

You do raise an interesting point, however. In several states, California being one, causing the death of a fetus in certain circumstances is considered murder.

So the question which I do not believe has been addressed yet (by the SCOTUS) is when is a person endowed with their inalienable rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

quote:

Originally posted by Broadside:

So the question which I do not believe has been addressed yet (by the SCOTUS) is when is a person endowed with their inalienable rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Not sure if SCOTUS would have anything to say about that as that is not part of the Constitution.