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Remington Update: Union accuses Remington Arms’ ...
December 29, 2020, 08:52 AM
MicropterusRemington Update: Union accuses Remington Arms’ ...
Interesting. Maybe they should move to a right to work state.
https://www.syracuse.com/busin...with-job-offers.htmlquote:
Union accuses Remington Arms’ new owner in Ilion of going around it with job offers
Ilion, N.Y. -- The union at Remington Arms in Ilion says the plant’s new owner is trying to go around it and its labor contract by sending job offers directly to 200 employees.
The United Mine Workers of America said Tuesday that any offer of employment made by RemArms and the terms and conditions of employment contained in such an offer must be negotiated with the union.
In a letter to RemArms representatives, the union said many of the terms of the job offers “are improper and most likely unlawful.”
“As I am sure you know, our members constitute an experienced and highly productive workforce,” Kevin Fagan, an attorney for the union wrote. “They worked diligently for your predecessor to manufacture world-class products and will do the same for you. However, they will not – and the UMWA will not – permit their work standards and conditions to be unilaterally imposed.”
Roundhill Group LLC, the company behind RemArms, purchased Remington’s gun factory in the Herkimer County village of Ilion and its handgun barrel factory in Lenoir City, Tennessee, this fall for $13 million as part of the gun maker’s breakup and sale under the supervision of a U.S. Bankruptcy Court judge in Alabama.
Remington’s previous owners closed the Ilion plant and furloughed most of its 701 employees, including about 600 represented by the union, just before the sale. RemArms, whose principals include business partners Richmond Italia and Scott Soura, has been working to reopen the plant and is reportedly waiting for approval of its application for a federal firearms license.
The job offers were signed by Italia, RemArms’s managing partner, and list a “proposed start date” of Feb. 15, 2021.
The terms in the job offers include making employment at the factory “at-will,” a condition that would allow the company to fire workers for no reason or any reason except an illegal one, “at any time with or without notice,” according to the letter from Italia.
Phil Smith, a spokesperson for the union, said the plant’s labor contract spells out the conditions and process the company must follow before an employee can be terminated.
In addition, Smith said the plant’s labor contract requires workers to be called back based on seniority. He said it is not clear what criteria the company used to select the 200 workers who were offered jobs, but that seniority was not one of them.
RemArms also drew the union’s ire by asking workers to waive various legal rights, including claims for separation pay and other benefits.
Smith said RemArms has not tried to claim that the plant’s labor contract is no longer valid. In fact, the new owners stipulated in their purchase offer that they would abide by the contract, and that stipulation was made a condition of the sale, he said.
RemArms did not respond to a request for comment Tuesday.
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"I enter a swamp as a sacred place—a sanctum sanctorum. There is the strength—the marrow of Nature." - Henry David Thoreau
December 29, 2020, 08:56 AM
vthokyUnions are a curious thing to me, for several reasons, but right now I'm wondering "why is the
mine workers' union involved in this?"
Politicians seem to have forgotten that they work for us, not the other way around.
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God bless America. December 29, 2020, 09:16 AM
Rev. A. J. ForsythThe UNMWA has been involved with Remington for quite some time. I believe it has to do with the conditions contained in the factory, the UNMWA would be the best fit without starting a completely new firearms union.
I hate to say it due to the great history of Ilion, but they need to GTFO and leave New York in the rear-view.
December 29, 2020, 09:22 AM
KrazeehorseUnion guys would rather be unemployed than make concessions. They think they have the company by the short ones until their bluff gets called.
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Be careful what you tolerate. You are teaching people how to treat you.
December 29, 2020, 10:05 AM
grecoDo you guys remember Checker that made taxi cabs in Michigan? The owners didn’t want to agree to the terms of a new contract? The union said sign or else (we strike). So Checker said ok, or else. They closed the plant and fired e’rbody. I don’t remember the details but it’s true. And that was against the powerful UAW.
Never be more than one step away from your sword-Old Greek Wisdom December 29, 2020, 10:14 AM
Lefty SigGibson Guitars was organized by the Steelworkers Union. The President of Gibson Ted McCarty asked what they have to do with woodworking and guitar making. The union said "Your guitars got steel strings? That's good enough for us".
It's pretty simple. The union that formerly represented the workers has no contract with the new company. The new company has a right to hire any workers it chooses, and THEN the employees can organize under Federal and New York State law if they choose.
December 29, 2020, 10:22 AM
HRKThat is a good question, does the existing Union Contract stand. If they bought the company then the contracts should stand since an ownership change doesn't change the corporations commitments, unless those commitments were dissolved as part of the bankruptcy.
December 29, 2020, 11:02 AM
Lord VaalicUnions have had their day.
I do not deny that they were necessary, they fought a fight that needed to be fought and we are all better off for what they did and achieved.
But their day is over and they are now just a bloated corrupt bullshit organization, a parasite that kills its host. I've spent almost 30 years in the auto industry now and have seen some really stupid shit. It's time for them to go.
Don't weep for the stupid, or you will be crying all day December 29, 2020, 11:05 AM
Lord Vaalicquote:
Originally posted by greco:
Do you guys remember Checker that made taxi cabs in Michigan? The owners didn’t want to agree to the terms of a new contract? The union said sign or else (we strike). So Checker said ok, or else. They closed the plant and fired e’rbody. I don’t remember the details but it’s true. And that was against the powerful UAW.
Just look at Flint, Mi. The birthplace of the UAW. In the 80s they decided to strike, GM said fuck off and left. They got what they wanted... Congrats.
Don't weep for the stupid, or you will be crying all day December 29, 2020, 11:28 AM
YooperSigsTheir lawyer sounds like a jackass. World class products? Maybe the good counselor needs a history lesson.
End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
December 29, 2020, 12:07 PM
odinquote:
But their day is over and they are now just a bloated corrupt bullshit organization, a parasite that kills its host
I beg to differ. For 40 years I was a manager and had to work with Unions. Most of the unions had negotiated contracts that allowed management some leeway to accomodate the needs of the business. Now, I belong to a Union, required by the job I'm in, and attend every union meeting. If it was up to management here, we would be earning $8.50 less per hour and "forced" to do certain things.
So, a Union is still necessary if management would stoop to forcing things on employees that are not fair or proper.
Now, talk to me about the Services Contract Act.... The bastards in Congress......
December 29, 2020, 12:12 PM
bigdealI said when Remington was sold and opted to stay in NY it was a bad decision. If the market doesn't kill Remington, the union most certainly will. From the Toyota NUMI plant in California, to Merita Bread here in Orlando, unions caused the closure of facilities and the loss of thousands of jobs.
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Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
December 29, 2020, 12:49 PM
Il Cattivo^^^ I wouldn't be surprised if the local government (whoever issues permits, for example) winds up trying to put their finger on the scale to help the union. Then again, local government's trip is getting a tax base, and therefore keeping jobs.
quote:
Originally posted by HRK:
That is a good question, does the existing Union Contract stand. If they bought the company then the contracts should stand since an ownership change doesn't change the corporations commitments, unless those commitments were dissolved as part of the bankruptcy.
My WAG (worth what you paid for it, of course) is that they wouldn't be making this move if they had simply "bought the company". My impression was that when Remington went bankrupt all such commitments died a legal death and all the new owners bought was the assets (plant, right to use the brand name, etc.). Then again, I don't know that.
December 29, 2020, 02:21 PM
LS1 GTOquote:
Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
quote:
Originally posted by greco:
Do you guys remember Checker that made taxi cabs in Michigan? The owners didn’t want to agree to the terms of a new contract? The union said sign or else (we strike). So Checker said ok, or else. They closed the plant and fired e’rbody. I don’t remember the details but it’s true. And that was against the powerful UAW.
Just look at Flint, Mi. The birthplace of the UAW. In the 80s they decided to strike, GM said fuck off and left. They got what they wanted... Congrats.
Twinkie also as I recall
Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.
"If dogs don't go to Heaven, I want to go where they go" Will Rogers
The definition of the words we used, carry a meaning of their own...
December 29, 2020, 02:25 PM
selogicDidn't the article state that the new company also bought the union contract , so to speak ? In my experience , that's usually the case . And that includes a company that went bankrupt and was purchased .
December 29, 2020, 02:31 PM
downtownvI find it ironic the Unions typically support Democrats. Democrats typically support illegal aliens/open borders who work for cheap labor.
Who's stupid here?
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December 29, 2020, 02:56 PM
kramdenUnions WAY BACK in the day were a good thing.
Workers being abused hourly, unsafe working conditions etc. , etc. Today they are a curse. Just an arm of the democratic party.
December 29, 2020, 02:57 PM
rburgIts kind of fun seeing a bunch of gun guys arguing a legal theory. First and foremost, legal arguments rarely follow logic. They follow precedent. And that was often set by corrupt folks. You know, payoffs and what not. Or maybe who you married. Makes about as much sense.
And the solution will probably be corrupt and illogical. In all this the ace in the hole will be the ability to shut NY property and move any, if there is, machinery to someplace friendly to the new owners. Maybe the new owners really are our enemy. The ones keeping ammo in short supply. It might be cheaper to build a new plant with all new machinery to the sunny south with friendly laws and lower heating bills.
The buyer could sell off the name to some Japanese firm to build better quality in Japan or china (didn't bother to make a capital "C"). So now the real question will be does the public (you and me) really have much love for the now tarnished brand name? My only regret is that I have nearly a case of their 9mm ammo. Oh, and I don't even know how many rounds there are in a case.
Unhappy ammo seeker
December 29, 2020, 03:59 PM
Il Cattivoquote:
Originally posted by selogic:
Didn't the article state that the new company also bought the union contract , so to speak ? In my experience , that's usually the case . And that includes a company that went bankrupt and was purchased .
Well, that's what the union rep said. I'm thinking that the rep's information may or may not be any good (people can walk away from conversations with different impressions as to what was said, people tend to interpret contract language from their own perspectives, and all contracts are generally at risk of some kind in the event of a bankruptcy). It's hard to know where a particular devil is until one has gone through the particular details.
December 29, 2020, 04:08 PM
Micropterusquote:
Originally posted by rburg:
First and foremost, legal arguments rarely follow logic.
Amen. One should never confuse law with common sense.
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"I enter a swamp as a sacred place—a sanctum sanctorum. There is the strength—the marrow of Nature." - Henry David Thoreau