you can't fix it in its current form. its a ponzi scheme and birthrates are going down (mostly democrats if you care), people are living longer on an actuarial basis, and payments substantially exceed contributions. Its a welfare program. So what can save it. Increase the retirement age for younger workers, increase the contribution rate, slow the growth of benefits (the CPI exceeds the return on assets), get benefits for new retirees in line with the programs goals of keeping seniors out of poverty.
There are other options but those are the best.

You guys need to stop calling this program a Ponzi scheme.

A Ponzi scheme is, by its nature and purpose, fraudulent. Is that what you really believe about SS?

Yeah, I understand why people are making this lazy and inaccurate comparison, but it just ain't so.

You don't like that the program exists, you don't like that your wages are garnished involuntarily. You think there's a better way, namely, to allow people to invest their money as they see fit, and I am genuinely impressed by those who express such faith in the ability of the average human being to wisely, consistently and successfully invest their money over the course of their adult life. Talk about being optimistic!

Respectfully, it is.

It was always sold as a con. All the lies about the “trust fund” etc.

No one ever plainly said “we rob younger works to give to older ones.”

Now, every social program may well be the same, but that doesn’t change the nature of it.

People didn’t go around dying before SS. Hell, it’s not enough money to make that much of a difference.

My father was a maximum contributor for decades - and he got a pittance.

None of this stuff ever works. None of it ever has.

SS works for me, paid into it from the day I began working until age 69 when I took it. Now retired it helps pay the bills that used to be paid from my pay check. Not sure what the whining is about?

quote:

Originally posted by abnmacv:
SS works for me, paid into it from the day I began working until age 69 when I took it. Now retired it helps pay the bills that used to be paid from my pay check. Not sure what the whining is about?

Don't you know that you've been scammed? Classic con. Ponzi. Wise up, sucker. Stop paying those bills.

If SSA is a Ponzi scheme, then so is just about every type of insurance. More people pay in than people draw out. That’s the whole premise of insurance.

The difference here is that they are not doing it in a fraudulent way to deceive.

And the idea behind a trust fund is the same as taking any of the insurance premiums and investing them to try to bolster the pot of money that people draw from.

quote:

Originally posted by Patriot:
If SSA is a Ponzi scheme, then so is just about every type of insurance. More people pay in than people draw out. That’s the whole premise of insurance.

The difference here is that they are not doing it in a fraudulent way to deceive.

And the idea behind a trust fund is the same as taking any of the insurance premiums and investing them to try to bolster the pot of money that people draw from.

The difference is that the insurance companies employ investment professionals to manage institutional money based on when it will be needed. It's a mix of short term and longer term investments. Insurance companies, for the most part, are very good at this.

The Social Security Trust Fund, on the other hand, is only a ledger balance within the government. It's only "investments" are essentially IOU's from the same government.

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment scam that pays returns to earlier investors using money from newer investors, rather than from actual profits. The scheme is entirely dependent on a continuous influx of new capital to survive, and it inevitably collapses when that supply dries up or too many people demand their money back.

Social security is not "a fraudulent investment scam", in the sense that the government is fraudulent or covering up how it's invested. It's not hidden.

However, SS is entirely dependent on a continuous influx of new capital to survive because the money in the "trust fund" is not invested. It's merely transfer payments; money in, money out. With a declining population and more importantly a declining work force, there's a lot more going out than coming in.

Rage all you like, love it or hate it there is nothing anyone participating in this thread can do about it one way or another.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:


Don't you know that you've been scammed? Classic con. Ponzi. Wise up, sucker. Stop paying those bills.

quote:

Originally posted by Paten:
Stop giving money to illegal immigrants and give it to Social Security recipients. Problem solved.

I don't think your math is going to support this.
Hint; "I'm pissed and won't take it any more!" isn't part of math.

Holy Schmidt has a list of possible ways to save SS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MmMhagADBU

Imo, the government has an overarching debt crisis, of which SS and Medicare are but a small part. The way out will be inflation. As far as SS, the cost of living adjustment will be jiggered to be much smaller than the actual inflation rate. Stack that on top of higher payroll taxes, increased retirement age, further bending of the curve to reduce payments to higher lifetime earners, and increasing income taxes and the system can be "saved".

It will mean higher taxes and ever lower returns, but the system will not be terminated. It won't be the right solution, but it will kick the can further down the road.

^^^ Yup...

And, for those of us who won't get as much due to the things you mention:

quote:

increased retirement age, further bending of the curve to reduce payments to higher lifetime earners, and increasing income taxes

It will be even harder to provide for ourselves due to the increasing inflation. The higher the inflation, the more risk you have to take to stay ahead of it.

Theoretically if I can draw for 10 years I will get back everything I and my employers have paid into it (minus any interest of course). I plan on drawing it in another 5 years.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:
Holy Schmidt has a list of possible ways to save SS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MmMhagADBU

Imo, the government has an overarching debt crisis, of which SS and Medicare are but a small part. The way out will be inflation. As far as SS, the cost of living adjustment will be jiggered to be much smaller than the actual inflation rate. Stack that on top of higher payroll taxes, increased retirement age, further bending of the curve to reduce payments to higher lifetime earners, and increasing income taxes and the system can be "saved".

It will mean higher taxes and ever lower returns, but the system will not be terminated. It won't be the right solution, but it will kick the can further down the road.

Or, we could just stop giving billions away to other countries, clean up medicare/medicaid fraud, refrain from sending billions to Somali thieves, and any other number of BS projects from politicians to themselves and benefactors and in turn balance the budget and fund SS.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:
Holy Schmidt has a list of possible ways to save SS.

The method he says is most likely is to raise the employment tax. I agree. It's been done many times before. It started out at 2%, 1% for the employer, and 1% for the employee.

Here's how it has increased over time:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:
Holy Schmidt has a list of possible ways to save SS.

The method he says is most likely is to raise the employment tax. I agree. It's been done many times before. It started out at 2%, 1% for the employer, and 1% for the employee.

Here's how it has increased over time:

[IMG] https://taxpolicycenter.org/si...storical_0.png[/IMG]

Until we reign in the spending problem, and separate SS money from the general fund it's never going to be solved. Imagine how much gains would exist if the Feds invested SS money from day one in the Market, housing, anything that would grow the value of the US dollar and SS would be flush.

Maybe they could even pay people enough to live on it above poverty levels...

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

It will be even harder to provide for ourselves due to the increasing inflation. The higher the inflation, the more risk you have to take to stay ahead of it.

Now looks like a great time to buy silver. Gold is priced well today at about $4000, but it may go down to $3500 before heading back up.

Yes, nothing is without risk. But we are taking a calculated risk on the metals to combat inflation. If inflation truly stays low and the dollar stays strong, well then the rest of the portfolio should prosper.

Those who are within 10 years of retirement and have little to no savings are going to get punished big time by what is coming at us.

You know what would go a long way toward fixing SS? Put a stop to this shit, give the perpetrators the harshest possible sentence and take everything they own as restitution.

https://x.com/TheSSAOIG/status...neficiaries-n2678681