quote:

Originally posted by airsoft guy:
Well, see because we got this thing called a constitution, and part of the constitution is the Bill of Rights, and I'm pretty sure summary execution is a violation of those documents. That's something the bad guys do, we've fought wars over things like that.

Ok, then this POS gets a trial the next day (limited to 15 minutes in duration) after which he's executed behind the courthouse. I can settle for that compromise.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by airsoft guy:
Well, see because we got this thing called a constitution, and part of the constitution is the Bill of Rights, and I'm pretty sure summary execution is a violation of those documents. That's something the bad guys do, we've fought wars over things like that.

Ok, then this POS gets a trial the next day (limited to 15 minutes in duration) after which he's executed behind the courthouse. I can settle for that compromise.

Real talk, you'd fit in real well in Soviet Russia, my dude.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

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Posts: 20717 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008
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posted November 23, 2020 05:25 AM Hide Post
Senseless...

Though I may be thought to be an uncivilized heathen, I don't understand why in cases like this the LE supervisor doesn't show up on scene, look at the body cam footage, verify it with everyone there, then walk over and tell the shooter "The body cam proves you shot a cop. Goodbye." BANG. No trial or jail time required.

Yeah, I understand your sentiment, and while I value our LE and Military I also know first hand I wouldn't want MANY of them making my sandwich at McDonald's. Must less determining my level of guilt with those consequences.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

* P228 factoids * // The original PROTO-1 Auction


 
Posts: 20717 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008
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posted November 23, 2020 05:25 AM Hide Post
Senseless...

Though I may be thought to be an uncivilized heathen, I don't understand why in cases like this the LE supervisor doesn't show up on scene, look at the body cam footage, verify it with everyone there, then walk over and tell the shooter "The body cam proves you shot a cop. Goodbye." BANG. No trial or jail time required.

Yeah, I understand your sentiment, and while I value our LE and Military I also know first hand I wouldn't want MANY of them making my sandwich at McDonald's. Must less determining my level of guilt with those consequences.

Rest assured that few members of LE would get hired, graduate from the academy, complete their field training (officer) program, or successfully complete probation with an attitude like bigdeal's. I was in LE for more than three decades, dealt with and investigated the shootings of several fellow officers, and was involved in three use of deadly force incidents myself where offenders attempted to kill me and/or other officers in my presence. If an offender died or was even injured during these confrontations, it was because deadly force was a reasonable response to the perceived threat. It was not an exercise in punishment, because my coworkers and I had a deep belief and commitment to the rule of law, which was why we entered the profession to begin with. The officer in this particular incident as well as her coworkers displayed this commitment, and although you can see this demonstrated numerous times, I think she best showed her resolve when she was asked if the shooter was placed in her police vehicle and she stated that (for her own good as well as his) she didn't want to be anywhere near him. Great work done by all here.

quote:

Originally posted by pulicords:

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

* P228 factoids * // The original PROTO-1 Auction


 
Posts: 20717 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008
smlsig
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posted November 23, 2020 05:25 AM Hide Post
Senseless...

Though I may be thought to be an uncivilized heathen, I don't understand why in cases like this the LE supervisor doesn't show up on scene, look at the body cam footage, verify it with everyone there, then walk over and tell the shooter "The body cam proves you shot a cop. Goodbye." BANG. No trial or jail time required.

Yeah, I understand your sentiment, and while I value our LE and Military I also know first hand I wouldn't want MANY of them making my sandwich at McDonald's. Must less determining my level of guilt with those consequences.

Rest assured that few members of LE would get hired, graduate from the academy, complete their field training (officer) program, or successfully complete probation with an attitude like bigdeal's. I was in LE for more than three decades, dealt with and investigated the shootings of several fellow officers, and was involved in three use of deadly force incidents myself where offenders attempted to kill me and/or other officers in my presence. If an offender died or was even injured during these confrontations, it was because deadly force was a reasonable response to the perceived threat. It was not an exercise in punishment, because my coworkers and I had a deep belief and commitment to the rule of law, which was why we entered the profession to begin with. The officer in this particular incident as well as her coworkers displayed this commitment, and although you can see this demonstrated numerous times, I think she best showed her resolve when she was asked if the shooter was placed in her police vehicle and she stated that (for her own good as well as his) she didn't want to be anywhere near him. Great work done by all here.

Well stated sir. In all my years in law enforcement, many outstanding traits like courage, integrity, tolerance, and compassion were consistently exhibited by law enforcement officers. Of all the traits exhibited perhaps the most impressive is restraint in the use of force. Most officers have multiple "opportunities" to use deadly force during a 20+ year career, but choose not to. You do not want your law enforcement officers acting as judge and jury, or from revenge, as much as they may want to kill he lowlife sonsabitches.

Man, if that doesn't demonstrate that cops are underpaid...

God bless 'em all.

quote:

Originally posted by airsoft guy:
Real talk, you'd fit in real well in Soviet Russia, my dude.

Actually not. I'm quite certain 'I' would be the one of the folks killed very early on in the process for a complete lack of compliance with the proletariat.

My comments are born out of complete frustration in a system I've watched for over 50 years deteriorate into almost complete uselessness at this point. The legal/judicial system no longer protects the innocent, nor does it do anything to reform or inhibit bad behavior. If anything, it promotes it. Cops are thrown under the bus daily, and rarely supported as they endeavor to do their jobs. Innocent people who attempt to protect themselves, given the system will no longer lift a finger to protect them, find themselves arrested, jailed, and/or bankrupted. When the guy in this story can opt to attempt to murder a cop for pretty much no reason at all, and expect the system to dole him out a second chance, the system isn't worth supporting any more.

As I've noted previously, I have several friends who are cops, and I respect all of them greatly. I do not however have an ounce of respect remaining for a legal/judicial system neither they, or I, can rely on any longer.

quote:

posted November 23, 2020 08:22 AM Hide Post
There are a lot of people in the world with serious mental illness, the things they do makes sense to them at the time, but does not make sense to anyone else.

Something too many clueless liberals don't get. They think you can sit and reason with someone who is violent and has serious mental issues. They just don't get that their reality is not that of a normal sane person.

quote:

Originally posted by pulicords:
Rest assured that few members of LE would get hired, graduate from the academy, complete their field training (officer) program, or successfully complete probation with an attitude like bigdeal's.

150% agree with that statement, hence the reason I have the level of respect I do for LEO's in general. I fully admit I do not have the temperament to be a LEO. But I also have no patience remaining for a legal/judicial system that is now more my enemy than it is something I can rely on to do the job required of it by the Constitution and the laws of this country. Face it, we are slipping ever closer to the filth running this country, where the law and those attempting to enforce it mean almost nothing. I can't even begin to describe how much that realization depresses me given I see no solution(s) on the horizon.

Hmmmm, I guess I'm worthless with no restraint either. After she fell away from the side window - you know, from being shot... My first thought was that was pretty open and shut, can we shoot him and get it over with?

And no, not there. After a trial...

Everyone will go, but look how nice he was after thinking about it for a minute. Maybe mommy and daddy talked him down on the phone. I'm all about rehabilitation but he AMBUSHED A COP... Or maybe better said, HE AMBUSHED A HUMAN BEING... now we aren't treating her special because of her badge.

Not sure why he did what he did. I don't think I care. He has defective gene's. The only way to clean out the pool is to start getting rid of defective genes...

Restraint? Not marching on DC right now to burn it down is restraint. Putting down an attempted murderer? Not a second thought. Not with open and shut evidence...


Going back to my hole now... I'd put a mask on to buy that officer a beverage of her choice.

I hope i wasnt insulting law enforcement. Like my line of work im certain most are good honest people doing the best job they can.

It was more of a dramatic statement to show how silly it would be to have that sort of judge jury and executioner type system.

Having spent ample time studying and witnessing that type of system i can assure you no on here would want that.

Its my opinion that when people make statements to the affect of, "i was born 100 years too late", or " we need to go back to a more barbaric time", they are fantasizing. Without realizing how much their ass would struggle without their daily AC, medicine, creature comforts, etc

If you want to live in that system, head to North Korea, that system is alive and well. I prefer the one we have here, where a jury decides these things

You did not insult LE, nor did you come across any way condoning "JJ&E", to the contrary.

Crystal clear to me what you meant.

And, I concur.

We may not always like the way a court case turns out, but it is better then vigilantism on the one hand, and the riots in the streets on the other.

Yeah, sometimes it is a gut punch, but when it happens, we work the system to fix the system.

I know what the other side of this coin looks like.

Having spent most of my lift either in the employ of the federal government (USMC) or county or municipal law enforcement, I find myself pretty much echoing pullcords sentiments regarding this event.
The officer's actions reflect her training, self-control and tactical awareness. Her response to directed gunfire was commendable. Anytime an action occurs like this and everyone survives; it's a good thing.

Bigdeal stated,
" I have several friends who are cops, and I respect all of them greatly. I do not however have an ounce of respect remaining for a legal/judicial system neither they, or I, can rely on any longer."

I can understand his general frustration over our governance and it's seeming indifference to the problems of our everyday lives, but don't throw away the system you will need to remedy that problem. There have been more positions filled on the federal bench in the past four years than you might imagine. Let them work. Keep your friends and work on your head a little.
We all need to now and then.
Oh, yeah. I think she could have clubbed him with that long gun if she needed.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
If you want to live in that system, head to North Korea, that system is alive and well. I prefer the one we have here, where a jury decides these things

You're kidding right? Whether you or I or any of the other members on this board "don't want to go there" means nothing. The country is headed there at breakneck speed, and with Biden at the helm, it should only accelerate. The system you speak so fondly about is history. Crooked attorneys, judges, and a court system has insured the worst among us are totally insulated from any punishment or pain for their crimes against humanity. That same legal/judicial system has been weaponized for use against us. A jury of my peers. Totally laughable. I've been a jury foreman several times. I assure you, the people on those juries were not my 'peers' on any level. Knuckle dragging, illiterate, emotionally compromised, morons who could be led down any path I chose to take them would be far more accurate.

Vigilante justice as a daily part of life is just around the corner. Do I like it? Absolutely not. Would I hope for something better? Absolutely. However, when a system as ours fails, and make no mistake, it is failing as we speak, people will take measures to protect themselves and their families. Hence the huge volumes of guns and ammo that have jumped off the shelves of gun shops around the country over the past couple years. People feel the shits about to hit the fan and they're prepping for that outcome.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
If you want to live in that system, head to North Korea, that system is alive and well. I prefer the one we have here, where a jury decides these things

You're kidding right? Whether you or I or any of the other members on this board "don't want to go there" means nothing. The country is headed there at breakneck speed, and with Biden at the helm, it should only accelerate. The system you speak so fondly about is history. Crooked attorneys, judges, and a court system has insured the worst among us are totally insulated from any punishment or pain for their crimes against humanity. That same legal/judicial system has been weaponized for use against us. A jury of my peers. Totally laughable. I've been a jury foreman several times. I assure you, the people on that jury where not my 'peers; on any level. Knuckle dragging, illiterate, emotionally compromised, morons who could be led down any path I chose to take them would be far more accurate.

Vigilante justice as a daily part of life is just around the corner. Do I like it? Absolutely not. Would I hope for something better? Absolutely. However, when a system as ours fails, and make no mistake, it is failing as we speak, people will take measures to protect themselves and their families. Hence the huge volumes of guns and ammo that have jumped off the shelves of gun shops around the country. People feel the shits about to hit the fan and their prepping.

Then we will simply have to disagree, you are saying the system is headed downhill but at the same time advocating for abandoning the very thing that makes us civilized. I cant be bothered to argue with that set of parameters. If your ideas of where we are headed or where we should be are as dramatized as you say then we are living in two separate realities.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
Then we will simply have to disagree, you are saying the system is headed downhill but at the same time advocating for abandoning the very thing that makes us civilized. I cant argue with that. If your ideas of where we are headed or where we should be are as dramatized as you say then we are living in two separate realities.

Otto, I don't want to argue or fight with you over any of this. But go back and watch the videos of Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, St Louis, New York, and other places around the country over the past 8 months. Does that look like 'civilization' to you? There's never been a time in our history that this sort of nonsense has occurred and been allowed to continue virtually unfettered (in many places condoned and supported by the very governments sworn to protect the people from exactly what was happening). And how many people on those videos have been arrested, tried, sentenced, and jailed for what they've done to property and human beings.

I'm blessed I guess to live in Central Florida, a place that for the most part, has remained fairly civil and non-violent. I don't want that to change, but I can see it changing if something is not done to curb the current paradigm. Unfortunately I see nothing on the horizon strong enough to push back on the mob and their supporters in government and the courts.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
If you want to live in that system, head to North Korea, that system is alive and well. I prefer the one we have here, where a jury decides these things

You're kidding right? Whether you or I or any of the other members on this board "don't want to go there" means nothing. The country is headed there at breakneck speed, and with Biden at the helm, it should only accelerate. The system you speak so fondly about is history. Crooked attorneys, judges, and a court system has insured the worst among us are totally insulated from any punishment or pain for their crimes against humanity. That same legal/judicial system has been weaponized for use against us. A jury of my peers. Totally laughable. I've been a jury foreman several times. I assure you, the people on that jury where not my 'peers; on any level. Knuckle dragging, illiterate, emotionally compromised, morons who could be led down any path I chose to take them would be far more accurate.

Vigilante justice as a daily part of life is just around the corner. Do I like it? Absolutely not. Would I hope for something better? Absolutely. However, when a system as ours fails, and make no mistake, it is failing as we speak, people will take measures to protect themselves and their families. Hence the huge volumes of guns and ammo that have jumped off the shelves of gun shops around the country. People feel the shits about to hit the fan and their prepping.

Then we will simply have to disagree, you are saying the system is headed downhill but at the same time advocating for abandoning the very thing that makes us civilized. I cant be bothered to argue with that set of parameters. If your ideas of where we are headed or where we should be are as dramatized as you say then we are living in two separate realities.

Just this Sunday in DC my Engine Company was at the scene of a shooting (which is daily) patching up a GSW patient and loading him into the ambo when someone across the street opened fire and sent over 30 rnds into the scene which was overflowing with cops. One of my guys took a rnd to the leg and a bystander was shot as well. Not only are the police overwhelmed but they're demoralized and scared to take action for fear of being fired/incarcerated, etc. This along with the fact that perps are feeling extra ballzy due to no repercussions being taken against them by DA's, judges, prosecutors, etc means this will be the norm because there's no fear of the law at all.

"...when a system as ours fails..."

It may well, sooner than some think, or most of us want, but until then, I prefer to hold onto the ground we have, even it it means being over-run, rather than run blindly and wildly into God knows what.

When facing a large company of enemy, once you let go of the position, you are fighting in their kill box.

Want you guys to know that i respect your opinions and understand your frustration.

I just think people look at situations from different perspectives. Especially ones they are passionate about.

I think as bad as we THINK things are here, we are still far from a sky is falling. I would wager every generation makes the same claim. And yet here we are, i do see many things i wish were different but that doesnt mean im ready to make the types of changes being proposed here.

And its my opinion that in reality neither are any of you.

I think most people have no idea how bad crime is right now.

And it’s everywhere. Cities. Small towns. Violent crime follows it.