I have no problem with prices going up in times of need, but where does one draw the line between that and gouging? I don't know.

I would think that necessary items like potable water for example, or medicines, or certain foodstuffs, would be OK to fix prices on in times of emergency/natural disaster, but other things? Not so much. If I have something you want (not need), what do you want to pay?

Around these parts the price of propane more than doubles in the winter when people need it most. How is that right?

We get around it by buying in the summer and preparing for the cold weather. People down there knew this was going to be ugly early last week. Stocking up when the prices were low would have been a really good idea.

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Originally posted by JALLEN:

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Originally posted by parabellum:
People who price-gouge during natural disasters show be horse-whipped, stripped naked and put into stocks in front of the local courthouse.

Three days in stocks should get the point across.

If they do it again after that, summary execution is warranted.

I could get behind that for the antifa crowd, too, now that you mention it. With full due proces, of course.

Your 'With full due process, of course'. reminds me of a scene in The Green Berets where David Jansen and John Wayne have their exchange.

'There is something called due process.' Jansen

'Out here due process is a bullet.' Wayne

Due process is a benefit of a civilized society, but unfortunately it does not take much to undue a civilized society.

If i'm in a situation like that and I'm without power for an extended period of time, I will gladly pay some asshole a whole bunch of money for a generator and supplies if I didn't already have them.

If the money is what motivates him to get off his couch and bring them to me, please don't "protect" me by making it illegal for him to do so.

That's why I'm torn on it. I do agree with the clip, the profit is unfortunately the motivation to bring the goods in.

2 issues that I have,

-There is a difference between making a profit and price gouging.
-that you are trying to make a profit due to another's misfortune.

If he had tried to sell the generators for 15% or 20% profit I doubt there would have been as much as an outcry as selling them for a 100% profit. And when he said that people were eager to pay double he is full of shit. What he should have said is that people HAD to pay whatever he was selling them for.


You can't find a generator here. HD and Lowes have already pulled them off the shelves and shipped them out to Tx. After Hurricane Matthew here last year they were getting shipment of generators in every day. You could find a generator if you wanted one although it may not be the specific model you might have wanted.
Limiting the amount people can buy helps. Wal mart did that with ammo. Rather then raising the prices they limited the amount each customer could buy. (A least it made people work harder)

A lot of the prepper threads have mentioned the idea having enough of the important stuff for survival and trade to facilitate survival. If that stock is accessed and used to trade for profit or advantage is that not gouging? Yeah, I think raking people over the coals for profit when they are desperate for survival and looking for food, and water should be a crime. I see the generator in Stossel's example as a luxury and I'm not sure it bothers me if profiters bring the luxuries to people who are willing to pay their inflated prices.

Call it what it is: Greed. Despicable.

It's definitely one example of excessive greed, and I hate to see it.

Not sure if more laws (or the suspension of normal laws) are the solution, though.

The problem lies in what the definition actually is when it comes to "price gouging".
If there is a line then who decides what it is?
And what if the recipient of the nefarious goods has no objection and will gladly pay the price?

I went to a preseason Texan game a couple of weeks ago - paid $12 plus tip for a bloody mary, wife paid for a bottle of water what they charge for a case in the grocery store > so what? > I had NO problem paying.

How else do you propose we manage the scarcity of goods? I see a lot of rage against gouging, but no proposition on how to manage scarcity. It seems like if you're going to punish price gouging, you also need a mechanism to allocate goods. It's like in the video where only those in the front of the line get to fill up on propane, while all others get none.

This is a serious question. Pitchforks and torches aren't going to cover people's needs in these situations.

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Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
t seems like if you're going to punish price gouging, you also need a mechanism to allocate goods. It's like in the video where only those in the front of the line get to fill up on propane, while all others get none.

It's still first come, first serve. People are simply paying more.

What you're proposing is that people with little money would be unable to buy basics- gasoline, food, water, etc- that under normal circumstances they would be able to afford. We're not talking about luxury items.

Is it OK to charge people 5000 dollars for each 8 ounce glass of water if the "market" says it's OK? That is what we're talking about, right? Market forces?

As for defining gouging, I'm reminded of Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart. who refrained in a ruling from attempting to define pornography but went on to say "I know it when I see it."

quote:

Originally posted by SpinZone:
And when he said that people were eager to pay double he is full of shit. What he should have said is that people HAD to pay whatever he was selling them for.

NO. Some people made a choice to pay his price. Its quite probable that others made the choice to walk away and wait to find generators at a lesser price.

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Originally posted by HayesGreener:
Officers who had responded during Andrew recovery in 92 arrested a couple of assholes who were selling a semi load of bags of ice for $20 a bag. People were paying that price without hesitation. As they were being hauled off they asked "what about our ice?". We'll check on it later, the officer said. It just disappeared before the officers returned. A terrible thing, evaporation.

How many bags of free ice were people floating the cost of leasing a semi truck, refer trailer rental, diesel for the truck, diesel for the trailer, insurance, mantinence, buying the ice, time for two people away from their jobs? People lived without bagged ice for a long time, how is it a necessity?

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Originally posted by Spokane228:
The "1 to a customer" rule seems like it be the best option. I hate price gouging as well. I just found the argument interesting. Similar to Über's surge pricing. Encourage more drivers to go on the clock to meet demand.
...

Surge pricing? The DC Metro (and I'd wager many other public transport systems) charge higher rates during surges (i.e., rush hour). How is this different than gouging?

Oh wait' it's government doing it. And subsidizing it with our tax dollars.

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:
Officers who had responded during Andrew recovery in 92 arrested a couple of assholes who were selling a semi load of bags of ice for $20 a bag. People were paying that price without hesitation. As they were being hauled off they asked "what about our ice?". We'll check on it later, the officer said. It just disappeared before the officers returned. A terrible thing, evaporation.

How many bags of free ice were people floating the cost of leasing a semi truck, refer trailer rental, diesel for the truck, diesel for the trailer, insurance, mantinence, buying the ice, time for two people away from their jobs? People lived without bagged ice for a long time, how is it a necessity?

When the little food you have in the fridge and freezer is in danger of rotting and all the stores are out, people will pay any price to get another day or two, which makes them susceptible to being victimized by gougers. And a gouger who makes a trip to a disaster area with a much needed commodity for the purpose of making great profits off the victims of the storm, he is an asshole.

I am not sure how some people compare going out to a game,dinner,etc. and getting/buying food or drinks at high prices and compare it to people paying 5-10 times (or more)of normal prices for necessities-water,etc., when there is a major crisis. Going out is a luxury and a choice. If you are able to, more power to you. Having your entire area destroyed and having to get water and food to survive for you and your family compared to a luxury item/option, are two different things in my book. These people "who are leaving their jobs to sell products", are doing so at the cost of others and not out of the goodness of their heart. In my opinion, the only people they care about is themselves. Being without electricity and selling generators for a profit is one thing, but not knowing where your next meal or drink is coming from during this crisis, is scary. We have some members here going through that now. Their entire lives are gone through no fault of their own. How do you profit on necessities for their very lives other than just because you can?

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If he had tried to sell the generators for 15% or 20% profit I doubt there would have been as much as an outcry as selling them for a 100% profit.

He wasn't selling them at a 100% profit. You're not factoring in any of the overhead. Cost of money, truck rental, fuel, and his time. Even if he sold them for twice what he paid, he may have only ended up making 20% after everything else was factored in.

Then again, some of it's relative. What I charge for a day's labor is certainly higher than what others charge. So for me to drop what I'm doing to do something else, I would have to make more to make it worth my while. While $1,000 a day may be really good money for one guy, it may be a serious loss for another.

That said, is doubling your money gouging? I just looked to see what a pallet full of water from Sam's is running. I usually buy one once a year (in the event of an emergency, I have bottled water on hand). 1,920 bottles for $400. That's roughly 21 cents each. Yet I see them in vending machines for $1.00-$1.50. Are they gouging?

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
. . .But Joe Schmo lives a state away, and they have 10 generators at his big box stores. He buys them up at regular retail pricing, rents a truck, fuels the truck, and spends his time driving into the disaster area. Selling them for the same price he paid for them is a loosing proposition. Even for him to break even he has to "gouge" to cover his overhead.

So they outlaw what he's doing. Instead of getting your generator today, maybe you'll see one in 8 to 10 weeks.

What you're describing isn't price gouging. There's a difference between responding to an entrepreneurial opportunity with high-cost goods (goods made high-cost by the nature of their extraordinary procurement and delivery) and exploiting the misery of others.

An example of pure price gouging occurred just a week ago in SE Idaho when some stations decided to roll up their price per gallon to over $3 in anticipation of the eclipse tourists having no choice but to pay that inflated price or be stuck here in Idaho.

I think that was just purely bad business and it will come back to haunt those stations. Locals, like me, are mad as hell about it. We are no longer inclined to give those stations our business. Since we are the main source of their revenue, it's going to hurt. Karma.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

If he had tried to sell the generators for 15% or 20% profit I doubt there would have been as much as an outcry as selling them for a 100% profit.

He wasn't selling them at a 100% profit. You're not factoring in any of the overhead. Cost of money, truck rental, fuel, and his time. Even if he sold them for twice what he paid, he may have only ended up making 20% after everything else was factored in.

Then again, some of it's relative. What I charge for a day's labor is certainly higher than what others charge. So for me to drop what I'm doing to do something else, I would have to make more to make it worth my while. While $1,000 a day may be really good money for one guy, it may be a serious loss for another.

That said, is doubling your money gouging? I just looked to see what a pallet full of water from Sam's is running. I usually buy one once a year (in the event of an emergency, I have bottled water on hand). 1,920 bottles for $400. That's roughly 21 cents each. Yet I see them in vending machines for $1.00-$1.50. Are they gouging?

Usually I try to give you the benefit of the doubt when people give you a hard time for your sometimes "unique" views....but your post is just straight up retarded.

quote:

when people give you a hard time for your sometimes "unique" views.

My "unique views" are usually a result of my "unique real life experiences". Those giving me a hard time often don't have that experience.

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but your post is just straight up retarded.

I don't know which part you're referring to.

What's retarded is thinking that if you buy something for $500 and sell it for $1,000 you made a 100% profit.

What's retarded is thinking that somebody taking their time to travel away from home to engage in some sort of enterprise shouldn't expect to make money. If that person wishes to donate their time, energy, and money, then more power to them. But that should be their choice.

What's retarded is thinking that doubling one's money in and of itself is gouging, seeing that there are many things in life that you buy for twice what somebody else paid.

I know there are a few moving parts in this thread. All of my comments are geared towards the OP's video and the specific example featured within.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
That actually makes a lot of sense.

I'm always torn on gouging. I don't really like it, but I understand it. One thing I'm not torn on is that I don't think it should be illegal.

So, you understand CTD charging $100 for a Pmag?