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| Conservative Behind Enemy Lines  |
I'm the kind of person who likes to have a lot of back stock. Also, living in this God-forsaken-state, I stock up on things that actually might be outlawed by the idiots in Sacramento someday. Now, if a catastrophe erupts, and I have items that are unable to be found anywhere else, don't those things become more valuable? Isn't gold extremely valuable because there's a limited supply in the world? I'm reminded of the ancient parable of the grasshopper and the ant. In a nutshell, during the summer months, the ant worked very long, hard days to prepare for the winter he knew was coming. But, the grasshopper poked fun at the ant everyday saying, "Dude, you work too hard! You should be enjoying the great weather out here!" When winter finally came, the ant was secure in his home with plenty of food to get him through the winter, while the grasshopper was outside begging the ant for food. Which would make the ant more of a scoundrel? 1.) Refuse to help the grasshopper and tell him, "Dude, I only have enough for me!" 2.) Do an inventory and see whether or not he might have a little extra and sell it to the grasshopper for a profit so that the the grasshopper might live, and the ant would be more financially prepared for the next winter? The credo of our country is Capitalism, and Capitalism can be summed up in 4 words: Buy Low Sell High An intelligent person studies recent history and makes a decision. He anticipates what might happen when the next hurricane season comes along, and makes the financial sacrifice to invest in generators and stores them in his garage. He might actually sit on his investment and never see a market for them - which means he would lose on his investment. Or, a hurricane might hit his area, then he'll be able to make good on his investment. I see him as a risk taker and a smart investor. But, if he just sells the generators for what he paid for them, I would see him as someone who doesn't know how to invest his money very well. To consider him a scoundrel means you must be the type of individual who doesn't believe in Capitalism. "It's not fair." How is it not fair? Doesn't everybody have the opportunity to invest in their own generator everyday? If you live in an area known for its hurricane seasons and don't prepare by having some back stock of water on hand, some Ready-To-Eat freeze-dried meals on hand, a generator, extra batteries, and other essential survival items, who's fault is that? Sheesh - I live in an area known for its devastating earthquakes. You better believe I'm prepared. Those people who fail to prepare are to blame for their having to pay unreasonable prices for survival items AFTER the catastrophe. I'm shocked that people would hate the SMART person who does prepare. Of all the enemies the American citizen faces, the Democrat Party is the very worst. | |||
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Bolt Thrower |
I hope nobody buys a bunch of ice and drives it to your neighborhood during the next disaster, this is a prime example of biting the hand that feeds. Perhaps your constabulary should raid the nearest bars and clubs. I'm sure their markup on drinks is more than those bags of ice. | |||
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| We gonna get some oojima in this house!  |
After hurricane Ivan a guy in Michigan came down with a semi trailer load of generators. He was charging double the Home Depot price. The "authorities" were called because of complaints of gouging. So basically. He loaded his generators up and left. So, the people still have no generators. The people who were willing to pay were pissed and were going nuts. You see it's called supply side economics. Price controls ALWAYS lead to SHORTAGE. Amazing how so many so called Liberty loving capitalists we have here that turn in to Marxist statists when a storm hits. If you make people hold their pricing, there will be no supply. Just like when ammo got tight. Store A will honor their price. Store B raised their prices, a lot, "gouging" the consumers. Store A was constantly out of stock, I mean months would go by before they could even partially fill an order if ever. Store B pretty much doubled its price. People cried and moaned like babies, but they always had good inventory to buy. Storms don't have a built in mechanism that can undo the basic rules of economic scarcity. If you believe otherwise, they have a spot for you in the Bernie Sanders Campaign Office. ----------------------------------------------------------- TCB all the time... | |||
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| Low Profile Member |
One thing the price gouging helps prevent is people gourging on commodities in short supply so fewer people are forced to do without when supplies are exhausted. | |||
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| Member |
To be fair, these are different scenarios. Prices going up because vital services (uber surge pricing) or goods are needed (because of a natural disaster) because that is the ONLY way to actually get the goods/services needed is essential. Prices going just because is different. CTD didn't have to raise their prices in order to deliver goods. People who knew the Wal-Mart delivery schedule and cleaned them out the moment they arrived so they could sell them to the same customer base was just because they could. | |||
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| We gonna get some oojima in this house! |
PRICE CONTROL ALWAYS LEADS TO SHORTAGE no matter what some governor declares. It is axiomatic. What good is it to hold gas prices to $2.20 per gallon if it can not exist? It is much to scarce and in too high of demand in that environment. There would be a 30 minute run on gas then it would be gone. Your ass still gotta walk cause there is no gas, but hey, we didn't let you get gouged... ----------------------------------------------------------- TCB all the time... | |||
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His Royal Hiney |
Doubling the price isn't price-gouging, 50% mark-up is considered pretty thin as a wholesale mark-up. But the sticking point is profiting from someone's calamity. When you see your neighbor's house on fire, do you offer to turn on your garden hose and aim at the fire for a fee? Or call the fire department for him for $5.00? Or there's an earthquake and your neighbor's house crumbles. Do you offer to help dig out his family for a small price? I think we just expect human beings to help their fellow human beings in times of disasters. When people see others in the midst of a disaster, they should think, "What can I do to help?" not "How can I make money from this?" "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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| Conservative Behind Enemy Lines |
Excellent post. Of all the enemies the American citizen faces, the Democrat Party is the very worst. | |||
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| Ammoholic |
Yes. I also understand many people never, ever considering buying anything after seeing that type of behavior. At one point (post shortage) I was looking for some magazines and they were out of stock everywhere I looked. Only CTD claimed to have the mags I wanted. "Oh well, I guess I'll have to wait a bit." | |||
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| Member |
I am bewildered by a lot of these responses. Did you actually watch the video ? I fully support "price gouging". Calling it "price gouging" is a similar tactic to calling small guns "Saturday Night Specials" and large guns "Sniper rifles". It is just a linguistic technique for demonizing freedom. There are lots of ways to combat "price gouging": prepare yourself. As noted in the video, without people motivated by "price gouging" you simply have a shortage AT ANY PRICE. Nobody likes "price gouging", ....but some people discover gold on their land and others don't. How is that fair ? "Crom is strong! If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, 'What is the riddle of steel?' If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me." | |||
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The guy behind the guy |
wow, I think he's spot on. If you think his statements are retarded, you'd likely have a hard time running your own business. a1abdj clearly understands the concepts of direct and indirect costs. As a business President, I think he's right on. | |||
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| The guy behind the guy |
Yes, I do understand it. If you have something everyone wants and no one else does, you're going to be able to sell it for a lot if you're willing to part with it. This is the opposite of a clearance sale IMO. People will brag about great deals they got, that's kinda like gouging the seller isn't it? Recently there was a post about TiRant 45's selling for $350. I've gotta assume someone lost a good bit of money on that deal. Did anyone offer to pay the retailer more? I doubt it. Someone had a bunch of something that no one wanted and had to take a bath on them. $100 for a Pmag is clearly an extreme example, but if you saw a deal for pmags for $1, I bet we'd all buy them up happily. Would we feel like we gouged the seller? I run a business, so maybe that's why I understand "gouging." When times are tough and my margins are razor thin, no one seems to mind getting our services for "cheap." When times are busy and my resources are limited, I raise margins a lot and pick and choose our projects. Suddenly people want to complain? If I didn't take advantage of the good markets and still had to eat the bad markets, profitability of the business overall would suffer and put my company at risk. That's why I say I understand it. | |||
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| Conservative Behind Enemy Lines |
Calling it "gouging" seems similar to the mentality of the socialist. "You have something I want, and I can't afford the new, high price that this catastrophe has created for the product. You should sell it to me for a far-below-market price because I need it." Of all the enemies the American citizen faces, the Democrat Party is the very worst. | |||
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Member |
I appreciate your point of view. I have no problem with vendors making a profit. But the situation I described involved a 1000 percent profit by opportunists seeking to make a killing. My perspective comes from having been a first responder at many disasters and dealing with victims who are desperate. This kind of profiteering from disaster victims is immoral by any standard and is damn sure illegal in Florida CMSGT USAF (Retired) Chief of Police (Retired) | |||
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safe & sound |
So which is better? Getting a needed commodity at a rip off price that people are willing to pay, or having no commodity at all because it's illegal? After all it's just ice, not health insurance. This country is one of the greatest on the face of the planet because of "greed". With great risk comes great reward. Eliminate the reward and you loose it all. 1000% profit on ice? Sounds like the regular every day mark up of bottled water. | |||
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| Member |
There is probably a distinction between "Please let my have that last bottle of oxygen so my elderly mother won't die immediately" and "You are gouging me 10,000X the cost for that flashlight battery, you 'profiteer'" But even in the case of oxygen bottles, the incentive to BRING MORE oxygen bottles, expecting a huge profit, would reduce the probability of having to beg for the LAST ONE. "Crom is strong! If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, 'What is the riddle of steel?' If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me." | |||
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| Oh stewardess, I speak jive.  |
What, if anything, would be wrong with the power company and your residential water company raising prices 10x following a storm like this to, I dunno, "recoup the costs of repairs" or something? Are rules about monopolies and price fixing wrong, then? | |||
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| safe & sound |
It was mentioned earlier, but propane is like that. Any interruption in supply or even winter itself will cause the price to spike. The other utilities are already charging you more than it cost with these events and costs factored in. So they aren't giving you a cut rate price and then quadrupling it when needed. They're just overpricing it to begin with and banking that extra so that they have funds in reserve. I purchase electricity through a cooperative. I actually got a refund this year because their costs were lower than anticipated. About $50. | |||
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| Oh stewardess, I speak jive. |
That's not the question. What if - after all they already do - tomorrow every utility company in the US decided to raise their rates by 10x, because skittles? Would this be OK? Why or why not? Genuinely curious... | |||
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Member |
I realize this is an emotional subject for folks, and not all situations are the same. I wrote the following article back in 2008, and I do think the basic premise is sound. I've been in the Bahamas when folks purchased plywood at "price controlled" rates not because they needed it, but to resell at a higher price since they could get away with it (not a business). By no means am I an expert on the subject, but I look at that Florida law and refer to it as "feel good" legislation for one reason ... who determines pricing that “grossly exceeds” the average price? Maybe you could pitch some sort of price controls with rationing in certain situations, but when an event like this occurs, how are you to get a rationing program in place? Even those who don't need gas, plywood or whatever who do not need the commodities, will certainly cash in their ration cards to get the goods. And if the supply is not there...
Steve Small Business Website Design & Maintenance - https://spidercreations.net | OpSpec Training - https://opspectraining.com | Grayguns - https://grayguns.com Evil exists. You can not negotiate with, bribe or placate evil. You're not going to be able to have it sit down with Dr. Phil for an anger management session either. | |||
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