quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
In response to konata. You do not have a proper grinder, and the coffee beans were “sitting around” and not fresh. The coffee you brewed was not “$250 awesome.” The machine is important, it’s certainly true that a quality machine makes quality coffee, but…read your own description of what you put into the coffee maker. The Moccamaster is a great machine, but it’s not Jeezus Chrise! I don’t like every coffee we’ve brewed in the machine. IMO, the coffee itself is more important than the coffee maker.

Agree. And I think I acknowledged explicitly and implicitly in the details I provided. I think the key point is that the flavor wasn't weak and anemic like that exhibited by most consumer drip makers. That is a positive sign. But what I should do is test the blade grinder vs the burr grinder to see if I can taste a difference with the good beans I bought once the grinder arrives. I'm curious how much the grinder matters to someone like me (superficial / casual coffee drinker). I'm thinking it will be mostly transparent but I'm hoping to be surprised.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
In response to konata. You do not have a proper grinder, and the coffee beans were “sitting around” and not fresh. The coffee you brewed was not “$250 awesome.” The machine is important, it’s certainly true that a quality machine makes quality coffee, but…read your own description of what you put into the coffee maker. The Moccamaster is a great machine, but it’s not Jeezus Chrise! I don’t like every coffee we’ve brewed in the machine. IMO, the coffee itself is more important than the coffee maker.

Agree. And I think I acknowledged explicitly and implicitly in the details I provided. I think the key point is that the flavor wasn't weak and anemic like that exhibited by most consumer drip makers. That is a positive sign. But what I should do is test the blade grinder vs the burr grinder to see if I can taste a difference with the good beans I bought once the grinder arrives. I'm curious how much the grinder matters to someone like me (superficial / casual coffee drinker). I'm thinking it will be mostly transparent but I'm hoping to be surprised.

I believe that the important difference between blade and burr grinder is consistency. Once you get the setting on a burr grinder dialed in, it’s going to be right every time. That’s pretty much impossible with a blade grinder. You can time how many seconds the coffee is in a blade grinder, trying to achieve your target grind, but the beans layer and some gets pulverized to dust and some will be in chunks, and of course if you grind it long enough to get uniformity, it will be too fine for the Moccamaster, which likes a medium grind.

Ah, that helps and makes sense. I think this point was made earlier (or at least in something I read somewhere) but I wasn't embracing it.

It's not that blade grinder can't grind a batch that will yield a good cup. It's that each batch will be materially different and only luck and statistics will yield a well ground batch. Whereas the burr grinder will yield a good batch each time (well, at least the expensive ones; we'll see about my cheap one).

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:

I believe that the important difference between blade and burr grinder is consistency.

My understanding from my sons (the coffee snobs) is that the key difference between a blade grinder and a burr grinder is that the blade grinder generates heat that will effect the beans.

As for the beans, a lot of good points have been made. I will only add that (again, according to my coffee snob offspring) it is very important to have fresh beans, and to grind them just before brewing. It's a running joke in my house: I generally grind a couple of days worth of coffee at a time and put the newly ground coffee in a jelly jar in the cabinet above the counter the grinder and coffeemaker sit on. But, if my boys are visiting, you could not get them to use that coffee at gunpoint. They insist on grinding fresh beans.

quote:

Originally posted by CoolRich59:
My understanding from my sons (the coffee snobs) is that the key difference between a blade grinder and a burr grinder is that the blade grinder generates heat that will effect the beans.

Interesting. Conceptually makes sense since the blade grinders leverage more kinetic energy (I'm guessing) than burr grinders. That being said, pragmatically speaking, is this really happening? How much heat is generated? How hot do the beans / bean's oil get? Does it really impact flavor? And if so, do we really know for worse - could it be better depending on the initial roast?

Not really expecting a response (unless known). Just academic curiosity. I'm doubtful my coffee expertise is even ballpark sufficient to detect any difference.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

quote:

Originally posted by CoolRich59:
My understanding from my sons (the coffee snobs) is that the key difference between a blade grinder and a burr grinder is that the blade grinder generates heat that will effect the beans.

Interesting. Conceptually makes sense since the blade grinders leverage more kinetic energy (I'm guessing) than burr grinders. That being said, pragmatically speaking, is this really happening? How much heat is generated? How hot do the beans / bean's oil get? Does it really impact flavor? And if so, do we really know for worse - could it be better depending on the initial roast?

Not really expecting a response (unless known). Just academic curiosity. I'm doubtful my coffee expertise is even ballpark sufficient to detect any difference.

Sorry. I don't have anything more than that's what the coffee snobs told me.

Short update: I still haven't tried new, good beans yet (still waiting for the burr grinder to arrive). But I made a second cup using the same beans from before using the blade grinder. And obviously I have no idea if the grind level is about the same as the first batch.

But I didn't notice that I made mistake w/ the first cup; I got confused with the cup size and how much coffee (grams) to use. I effectively used half as much water as recommended.

The second cup is much weaker but also much smoother. Hoping to try good beans with a good grind this weekend.

So far very happy with my machine. I’ve always read the previous SF TVMM threads, but it just seemed like a lot of money for a casual coffee drinker like myself (1-2 cups, 3-4 day a week)

Not being a huge coffee drinker I was an early fan of the Keurigs. Convenience and variety, albeit at a price. Machines just seem to lack when it comes to quality/longevity though and I’ve gone through several Keurig machines (probably 5 in last 12 years or so). Thank goodness for Costco, they always refunded my money when one crapped out and then I would just buy another.

When my last Keurig died a couple months ago I switched to a Ninja combo machine that does both 4” cone drip into a carafe or K-cups. I liked the idea of it being “the best of both” but in reality it didn't do either particularly well. Essentially “adequate” but a hassle swapping parts to go from K-cups to drip and back. Additionally the machine was bulky, and you had to devote storage space to whatever parts you weren’t using for the current configuration. It was also over complicated to use with about 10 different choices for how much to brew along with multiple choices on the style of brew.


You need to use 2-3 K-cups for a decent 12-14 oz commuter mug. That means going through the brew process multiple times for each cup of coffee. I finally exhausted my K-cup supply and had pretty much decided to just use the drip function when I saw the thread for the MM Prime Day deal.

Ordered the 40 oz thermal carafe version and returned the two month old Ninja to Costco for a refund, so total cost for the upgrade was only about $70 out of pocket. I figure I’ll save that fairly quickly by buying beans instead of K-cups.

Machine takes up far less counter space, can’t get any easier then just pushing a switch, only extra part to keep track of is the travel lid for the carafe.

To be honest, not being a coffee snob I don’t notice a huge difference in coffee taste between the MM and the Ninja being used a a drip machine, or vs my old Oxo drip machine I used at work for that matter (but was overly complicated and bulkier as well). I imagine with better and fresher beans, I might find that it does make better coffee. My beans tend to sit for a year or more before they get used up. That time should shorten now that the K-cups are out of the mix.


For me the machine’s simplicity, looks, and reputation make the upgrade worth it even if the coffee tastes the same as from my previous drip machines. Some truth to the “Buy once, cry once” theory in this case. Took me a long time to get here, but I’m here and at 60 years old I’m looking forward to this being my last coffee maker purchase.

Third cup - still waiting for the burr grinder.....

With each cup, the coffee gets better. Even with what I think may be decent beans (but likely snubbed by the snobs ) albeit a bit old.

Same beans as before but I tried a finer grind (medium fine? fine?) with the same amount of amount of water.

Cup was very flavorful and smooth. Even w/ the old beans, I'm gonna say the cup was more enjoyable than what I usually have w/ the Nespresso. No crema (should there be? I'm guessing not as likely wouldn't pass through the paper filter) but flavorful.

Can't wait to use fresh, better beans (100% Kona) w/ the burr grinder.

I've had a Moccamaster for about a year now and while I like it and it makes a good cup of coffee, I didn't see a significant improvement from my older Mr. Coffee with a thermal carafe. Granted I was already using fresh beans from a local roaster, grinding with a burr grinder for each pot made.

For me the combination of fresh beans with a consistent grind and a coffee maker without a hot/warming plate made the biggest difference.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
No crema (should there be?)

I think pressure is required for crema, I've never seen any with my Moccamaster, but I see plenty with the Breville Barista Express.

To all you "new" MoccaMaster brethren:

Read the manual and DO NOT USE VINEGAR to clean your machine - nor any other acetic-acid based cleaners.
These will react/corrode the high quality copper element and impart a nasty taste to your java!..I use Descalz as recommended by those in the know!

Company called URNEX makes some wonderful cleaning products.

Beans make a difference. As you experiment, try some from different regions of the world and different roasts. I like Costa Rica, Papau New Guinea, Yemen and Indonesia coffees. Kona is okay, but for the money is definitely not worth it in my book. Each coffee has different flavor profile, eventually you will figure out what meets your needs. Also for fun some day, invite some friends over and make coffees in different manners. Drip, aeropress, French press. You will be surprised / shocked by the flavor differences with the same bean.

Treat coffee beans like a fruit / vegetable - it has a shelf life. Do not think it is a dry good like pasta. As coffee is a crop, a variety you like this year may be different next year.

Enjoy the adventure.

this may be overly anal but the filter cone forms a v channel. is it better to place the channel formed by the v in parallel to the water dispensing arm? or have the channel be perpendicular to the arm? or doesn't matter?

Those of you using a Baratza burr grinder with a Moccamaster, what grind setting (from 1 to 40) are you using to achieve the recommended “medium to medium-coarse” grind? Mine seems to give good results at 22, fyi.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
this may be overly anal but the filter cone forms a v channel. is it better to place the channel formed by the v in parallel to the water dispensing arm? or have the channel be perpendicular to the arm? or doesn't matter?

The filter inserts in line with the holder can only go in parallel to the drip arm

On my model, I can rotate the plastic filter cone holder relative to the drip arm....

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
this may be overly anal but the filter cone forms a v channel. is it better to place the channel formed by the v in parallel to the water dispensing arm? or have the channel be perpendicular to the arm? or doesn't matter?

Probably doesn’t matter, but the marketing shots show it parallel, so that’s the way I do it. Plus since I have the manual drip stop basket, that makes the slide face forward

quote:

Originally posted by tsmccull:
Those of you using a Baratza burr grinder with a Moccamaster, what grind setting (from 1 to 40) are you using to achieve the recommended “medium to medium-coarse” grind? Mine seems to give good results at 22, fyi.

I have the Baratza Virtuoso+, and I have it set on 18 for a time of 33 seconds. I tinkered with the grinder for several days, and dialed it in to provide 6 level scoops (the Technivorm scoop) of coffee to brew a full pot.

Does anyone rig a timer to their Moccamaster so the coffee is ready when you get us? I really like being able to just come down, pet the dogs and pour. I grind the beans the night before (breville that I really like) and brew in a Cuisinart drip machine with a built in timer. We make 14 cups a day, which gives me what I need to drink hot, and my wife puts the rest in the fridge to drink cold the next day.

quote:

Originally posted by Tgrshrk99:
Does anyone rig a timer to their Moccamaster so the coffee is ready when you get us? I really like being able to just come down, pet the dogs and pour. I grind the beans the night before (breville that I really like) and brew in a Cuisinart drip machine with a built in timer. We make 14 cups a day, which gives me what I need to drink hot, and my wife puts the rest in the fridge to drink cold the next day.

Yes. It’s plugged into an Amazon smart plug. It’s a set and forget thing but you can bypass and start with a button on the side. I like having a later start time on the weekend for our thermal carafe version.