quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
Not sure what he had in his right hand but clearly he had a cigarette in the left.

The robot was in his right hand.

The police opened the door and threw the robot in. The robot is maneuvered by the police into the bedroom. The guy gets up, lights a cigarette, he looks at the robot, says "What the fuck is that fucking thing?", and picks it up.

He then proceeds to follow the officer's directions to a T. He comes out with his hands up, shows them his hands while they were up, and they shoot him for it. He's got a cigarette in one hand and the robot they introduced into the situation in the other.

It's one thing to say "I thought he had a gun" and another to give him the object that caused you to think he had a gun.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
As for the rest of this…I’m certain the media would make absolutely sure that they present all the facts clearly and in a way that could not be misconstrued against law enforcement by omission or misdirection. Completely certain.

Should we draw, or quarter them first?

Did you watch the video?

It's clear footage, both audio and video, from the camera inside the RV from the beginning to the ending of the incident. This is what everyone else here is talking about. Nobody's judgement is being clouded by the "media".

trapper - I think your sarcasm meter needs calibration.

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
Can one sue the Cherokee Nation?

Big freakin' ball of sovereign immunity string. Short version is "maybe, but it will be painful, protracted, and a mostly-hollow victory if you do manage to pull it off."

Not a good looking video, and as many of you will likely recall, I am always in the "don't rush to judgement/videos are never as clear cut as they seem".

You can claim any number of mitigating factors, and they will, but perhaps one of the biggest red flags to me is that the official press release seems to be in direct contradiction to reality... It stated there was a verbal altercation and then a confrontation at the door.... I didn't see or hear either of those. I saw what appeared to be the man following directions. Yes, the robot in his hand could easily be mistaken for a gun, and it probably was... but it appears that he did what they asked.

I repeat:



I am glad the fellow survived.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
Buncha SEAL wannabees who need to spend a decade or two in prison.

This isn't quite as bad as the Daniel Shaver murder, but it's right up there.

I live around 15 miles or so from where Shaver was murdered and I'm amazed that the jury found him innocent. From what I've read, the cop's attorney told the jury that if they found him guilty, the cops would stop protecting the residents and the jury members didn't want to be the ones responsible for what happened if the cops actually did that.

Friends talk about this from time to time and we're all amazed that Shaver's friends or relatives haven't had the ex-cop killed yet. I know that years ago the guy would be pushing up daisies.

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:
trapper - I think your sarcasm meter needs calibration.

Could be and wouldn't be the first time.

I took both comments I quoted as sarcastic remarks expressing the author's frustration with his perception that other posters in this thread were jumping to conclusions and being influenced by media portrayals of this incident.

My question arises because I have not seen or read any media portrayals, I've only watched the video footage from inside the RV. I believe the other posters are commenting from the same viewpoint. Based on what I saw and heard, I can not imagine how any reasonable person could explain away why the police shot that man. I don't remember chongosuerte ever posting anything to lead me to believe he was anything other than a reasonable person, hence my question.

Ooh, I just thought of a possibility, because you know, we can't see everything in the security cam footage:

The guy who was shot, had an enemy who called 911 on him. That enemy waited in the nearby hills behind the guy's trailer in a ghillie suit for the SWAT team to show up. When they got there and the guy opened the door, his enemy fired off a round, the officer's hearing that shot, assumed it came from guy, and they shot him. <---97.5% sarcasm

I had forgotten about Mr Shaver. That was pure murder. Not a cop but holy fuck how horrible were those two idiots with guns? Hard to believe a jury let them (him) off.

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
Does this count as qualified immunity as long as the charges they made up stick?

In a word: NO. Qualified Immunity applies when officers act REASONABLY in view of the totality of the circumstances, in the course and scope of their employment after review by a judge(s). That's why it's called "QUALIFIED immunity." Gross negligence or deliberate criminal/civil wrongdoing can and does result in the ability to charge officers with crimes and/or civil wrongdoing.

Without it, officers would have to pay out of pocket to defend themselves civilly for virtually every action taken, regardless of the reasonableness of their actions. Example: Officer arrests suspect for outstanding warrant, but the warrant was later determined to have been recalled by the court. The court (Judge) can't be sued (due to Qualified Immunity) and neither can the officer, if his actions were deemed within the course and scope of his employment and on the face "reasonable" based upon the circumstances.

Yes, Daniel Shaver was murdered by an idiot.

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...935/m/6040033434/p/1

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...0030444?r=1020030444

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:
I've said it before and I'll say it again even though it probably won't be popular.

The militarization of police was a huge mistake.

When they dress like Army guys, get high and tights or shave their heads, run around in BDUs and boots they're gonna get the same mindset as the military has and the same sort of ROE.

Except of course, these shootings have become somewhat commonplace so the ROE are becoming acceptable to a large number of people.

If they don't get prison time, some friend or relative ought to go tune them up a bit.

Looking at those morons, they are each festooned with $12-15K in gear (e.g., ballistic vests and helmets, lasers, lights, machine guns, NVGs [single biggest cost], pistols) plus robotics and an armored vehicle and yet they are incapable of waiting until daylight, then politely knocking on the door and asking the homeowners if they heard gun fire and did they possibly know which direction it came from. If the residents are known Antifa/BLM terrorists who’ve threatened police officers in the past, provide overwatch, but don’t bust the place open in the middle of the night, and then shoot an unarmed man whose hands appear up.

Unless there is evidence not being presented, those morons, plus their command staff should be told to go work for Waffle House after they are released on parole.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
Does this count as qualified immunity as long as the charges they made up stick?

Qualified immunity doesn’t mean what most people think it means.

The charges sticking or not aren’t really relevant. Qualified immunity is for a civil suit, not criminal (for the officer or the public).

And it’s qualified. Judges and prosecutors have absolute immunity. Law enforcement has to meet certain criteria to be immune, it’s not a given, and that just means they can’t be sued.

In the last several years we have seen officers charged criminally that would have been expected to be granted qualified immunity in the federal system just a few years prior if it was a civil case. It is interesting times.

As for the rest of this…I’m certain the media would make absolutely sure that they present all the facts clearly and in a way that could not be misconstrued against law enforcement by omission or misdirection. Completely certain.

Should we draw, or quarter them first?

It's worth mentioning that most elected officials have Qualified Immunity. City Council creates legislation that's signed into law by the mayor, someone is injured or killed due to this legislation? Neither the council members or executive that signed the measure into law can be sued.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Was that in the southeastern part of Western North Carolina?

SWAT- in this instance, it stands for Special Weapons and 'Tards

__________________

Yes, Para, Cherokee county is the western most county in southern part of NC. This is where we live, Murphy, NC, we are 20 miles from the Ga and Tenn. state lines.

I was just trying to work the four cardinal points into the thread.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Yes, Daniel Shaver was murdered by an idiot.

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...935/m/6040033434/p/1

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...0030444?r=1020030444

And while there was talk about it in the those threads, the civil case judgments had not happened yet. Rather than resurrect a thread: Info Shaver's parents: $1.5 million and his common law wife: $8 Million.

@wcb6092
is there an update as far as the health of the victim and the legal status of the criminals that attempted murder?