quote:

That information is not provided, of course, so we are dealing with possibilities.

You need the facts, the details, to decide, but not to analyze. Nobody here will be deciding. That's for the parties involved. Many will learn from reading this about some potential outcomes they had not considered, however.

This happens all the time in shooting scenarios. Folks take the account of what happened, accurate and complete or not, and start analyzing the event, plugging in various assumptions, varying, testing, to see what conclusions might be justified. It is often instructive, and sometimes entertaining, but always harmless.

Thank you for your imput. Wise words.

Hey guys, thanks for all the responses. The pizza joint serves soda only, no alcohol. There was no pocketing of money by the minor, my understanding. Owners "proof" is the comparison of the kids charges to that of other servers over a 5 month period. I tend to agree with most here that the owner is reaching, but the kid should do something to make amends. I'll pass this along to the mother.

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Owners "proof" is the comparison of the kids charges to that of other servers over a 5 month period.

That's not proof. What about the 25 gallons of syrup over and beyond what they would normally use?

quote:

Originally posted by bigarms:
Hey guys, thanks for all the responses. The pizza joint serves soda only, no alcohol. There was no pocketing of money by the minor, my understanding. Owners "proof" is the comparison of the kids charges to that of other servers over a 5 month period. I tend to agree with most here that the owner is reaching, but the kid should do something to make amends. I'll pass this along to the mother.

In other words he has nothing and should be told to pound sand and do not let the kid anywhere near him or let him 'admit' anything either. No evidence for a criminal charge and there is no way he could do anything in a civil case either. I would think the kid 'doing something' to 'make amends' would be a tacit admission of guilt that could be used against him if the owner decided to push it. It would probably be worth it to consult an attorney before doing anything further with the owner if the kids future plans are possibly in jeopardy.

I used to go to a particular restaurant in San Diego for a burger & beer. One time I noticed that the barkeep hadn't put my beer on the tab. I called his attention to that. He thanked me for being honest, and made out a correct bill. The same thing happened on my next two visits. I deduced that the barkeep was cheating the owner in order to get better tips. I quit going there. Not long afterwards, the restaurant closed.

What is the likelihood that any cop would arrest the kid, or that any DA would prosecute? I'm thinking very low to absolute zero. The same for any real civil action. It seems pretty likely the owners evidence is nonexistent or worthless. If the owner hasn't fired the kid, the kid should quit. If the owner tries to do anything to go after the kid or the parent, the parent should tell the owner to fuck off. I sense a large bullshit factor in what's going on here.

And yes, the parent should have a serious discussion with the kid.

quote:

Originally posted by bigarms:
Hey guys, thanks for all the responses. The pizza joint serves soda only, no alcohol. There was no pocketing of money by the minor, my understanding. Owners "proof" is the comparison of the kids charges to that of other servers over a 5 month period. I tend to agree with most here that the owner is reaching, but the kid should do something to make amends. I'll pass this along to the mother.

So the owner has nothing and pulled $5k out of his ass and waited five months on top of that? Fishy. Write off one month of weird sales, maybe, but five months? GTFO.

I can buy a 5 gallon bag of coke syrup at Costco for $84 and it yields 30 gallons of soda. That's 320 12oz servings.

Make amends for being accused of something he may or may not have done? It's time for a new job. Perhaps a convo with mom, dad, or some other adult about actions, consequences, being 18 and held to account as an adult, etc. It's a wake up call if he did do it and a reminder to do the right thing if he didn't.

I read the whole thread, but what I didn't see was if mom was asked or offered whether she asked the kid if he did it.

I think that would be my first question, if yes, the second question would be how/why?


Whole lot of supposition, assumptions, proclamations going on when the most basic of questions ain't even been asked.



I am not a lawyer or a cop, but based on what has been said my guess would be that the agency I work for would refuse to take any sort of report as there is nothing to support a claim of theft (short til missing money, syrup use in excess of charges, coworkers or manager catching him serving drinks on orders that don't have drinks listed, customers pointing out errors on checks, etc)

We would likely refuse to take a report and advise it to be an employee disciplinary issue to be resolved through the civil process.

It may be a shake down, it may be a legit claim-likely somewhere in between. My gut tells me probably some combination of poor employee and bad management.

Could be as simple as the kid not asking people if they would like a soda with their order or offering people a cup for free water.

"I'm sorry officer/DA/judge, I believe soda is unhealthy so I would always offer a cup for water to customers instead of a soda"

Very common in the serving industry to not charge for a soda with expectation of a slightly larger tip. It happens, kid shouldn't be doing it (if he is), but the manager /owner sounds like he is trying to scare the kid straight or he is a scumbag. Sounds like there is no proof. I'd tell my kid to quit as trying to make amends might lead to more issues. If the kid admitted to doing it, then that's another story and he should do something (forego a paycheck or two) to make up for it.

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Originally posted by KevinCW:
Why did he do it?

Was he giving free sodas to friends? Was he charging the customers, pocketing the money for himself instead of ringing them up?

This is exactly what I was thinking.

Is this a case of improper training? Or...did he just "hook up" his friends a few times, and got caught? If he knew it was wrong, and did it anyway....then it should derail his military aspirations. INTEGRITY FIRST. He'll need some life experience to prove that he's learned that lesson before he's ready for my military.

IF, he was trained wrong...didn't intentionally do this to "hurt" the owner, or was otherwise confused or dumb...that is much easier to forgive than an intentional theft from his employer. Even if he could get into the military at this point, this WILL catch on his security clearance background and limit his options.

They need to solve this to a conclusion, because no recruiter is going to send him to basic while there's a potential lawsuit against him hanging in the air.

.

Considering all of our opinions, and the lack of details...

I suggest you recommend the Mother stop all direct communications between her son and the pizza joint owner.

Hire a lawyer to meet with the employer and to represent the son.

I say this because you don't know if the owner is fishing to get an admission of guilt on tape.

Keep in mind that the cost of the cups were probably more than the cost of the syrup used to make the soda. If you're in NY and have a soda tax, there could also be questions about city and state sales tax laws that were broken.

I can easily expect statements from the son like, "I only gave a few drinks away but not $5,000." Weather or not such can be used in a civil or criminal proceedings depends on your State.

The owner needs to be able to show differences in cup counts & soda syrup counts vs. gross soda sales ~ not for the 5 months as a whole, but for every single shift the place was open for business and then prove it was all done during his shifts and only by her son.

If the owner does press charges, make sure her son's only words to the police are, "My lawyer is XXX, I will wait for them to arrive before I answer any questions."

Make sure the son is aware that the police are permitted to lie. They may say they have him on video, they may say not talking to them will only make him look more guilty. Another phrase the son should be ready to say is, "I am not refusing to answer your questions, but I am waiting for my lawyer to arrive before I do so."

Make sure the son understands no questions are to be answered until his lawyer arrives ~ even if he hasn't been arrested or charged. If they show up at the door just for a friendly chat, invite them to make an appointment with the lawyer.

Most of all listen to BuronRW, Jallen, and JHE888 ~ they are all lawyers, I'm not but I have management experience in retail food sales.

For all those who are making statements about the son's honesty and integrity. We simply don't know the entire story.
We have no idea if the pizza joint has a written training manual that covers if drinks can be given away to customers or to employees.
Is there a non-written polity for free drinks, how is it explained in training?
Does it only apply to uniformed military, police, and fire fighters?
Is it customary for all servers to give no more than 1 free drink per shift?
Is it their written policy for only the manager to give away free drinks?
If the employee is permitted a free meal and drink during their shift, is it against policy for the employee to give that work benefit to someone else?

We simply do not know the entire story.

The kid is a kid and most likely thought he would never get caught, but I know of several places that offer employees "family meals" where they are fed each shift. I also know of places that allow employees to take their "family meals" go to at the end of shift, and I know of places that permit the meal to be given to someone else. But this is not the norm in the industry.

The kid should not admit anything, the owner has no proof. However sounds like the kid is being shady. He either needs to grow up, or is not reliable. May not be a quality person, but everyone makes mistakes.

Too much going on here for us to learn anything definite. Maybe the total the owner wants is the total of all people, and he's just trying to pin it on an easy mark. The kid should never even consider going back to that employer. Stay away. Its poison. Then remember everyone isn't well suited for every job. Maybe the kid should try landscaping or grocery store bagging. Something where he doesn't handle money or the checks for others to pay.

I'm not convinced of any of it. We eat out a lot. We enjoy it. But the sit down restaurants we frequent, its not uncommon to be "compted" a drink or dessert. Or even a tiny bowl of chips. I tend to tip well. Today's tip was 33% and I got charged for everything. But the manager at yesterdays place once "compted" the entire meal. If I complain about anything, its not on my bill. If something is wrong with the fountain drink, I don't hesitate to tell my waitress (a friend). Sometimes the coke is too "hot" as in too fizzy, or sometimes flat.

It doesn't matter to me how much I pay. On Mondays, I pay $22 for my supper. I pay the same regardless of the bill. Its supposed to be $16.74 plus tip. I pay $22. If she takes it off, I still pay the $22. It upsets her because she then feels she needs to add it back in. I just laugh.

It appears the wait staff has a lot of discretion as to when not to charge.

In this thread, maybe the owner is trying to cover all the employees giving. If the kid quits and the replacement starts charging, they'll probably lose a bunch of customers. If he's not improving his tips the customers were getting a great deal. When that stops, so will their patronizing the place. The owner needs to tread lightly here. He'll lose all the goodwill and all his customers.

It would be helpful to know the kid's side of this story.

quote:

Originally posted by bigarms:
Hey guys, thanks for all the responses. The pizza joint serves soda only, no alcohol. There was no pocketing of money by the minor, my understanding. Owners "proof" is the comparison of the kids charges to that of other servers over a 5 month period. I tend to agree with most here that the owner is reaching, but the kid should do something to make amends. I'll pass this along to the mother.

So WHY was he not charging for drinks??? Was he "schmoozing" the customers for bigger tips (thinking the savings would make up a bigger tip for him)

Was he doing this only for buddies?

Was he doing this because the asshole owner charges something outrageous for sodas?

Typically, soda, especially fountain soda is a MASSIVE money maker for a business. Those sodas cost tehm a few cents and they usually charge a buck and a half or more. They sell the food, or whatever they sell at a loss or cost (or at least minimal profit) and make their money on the soda. Most of the time, the damn cup (for to go orders) costs more than the actual soda they fill it with.

I still need to know his motivation for doing so (provided he actually did so).

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Originally posted by sigfreund:
Regardless of how much revenue was actually involved or whether it would be possible to take legal action against the offender—and assuming that the allegation was true to any degree—the important thing about all this is that he’d better learn a little more about right and wrong before he takes the enlistment oath. Not only are there are far more possibilities and temptations in the military for overlooking things for friends or others than when working in a pizza place, the penalties are far more serious than having to pay back an inflated financial claim. Being in the military is a grown-up activity with grown-up rules and grown-up consequences.

An excellent answer. Nothing more to be said.