quote:

Originally posted by BurtonRW:
1) Giving away product intentionally is absolutely theft by unlawful conversion, just like any other, but good luck proving $5K in damages.

There is no way in hell he could ever show the amount of drinks that the customers MIGHT have ordered. None. I'd say the chance of a civil suit prevailing is miniscule.

And I seriously doubt that any prosecutor could be convinced to bring any charges. They would have the same problem - what is the amount? Can't be proven. Even it could be definitively shown, prosecutors have far better things to do.

I think the store owner is talking out of his ass. I don't know if he is bluffing, or is ignorant of the huge flaws in any claims he might try to bring.

I do agree it indicates some honesty problems with the kid.

This situation has legal issues which have been addressed. Frankly, I am more concerned with the character issues. It seems everybody has a "good kid". The mother is taking the lead here, which makes me suspicious. If he is a "good kid" he works off the debt to the owner. My guess is that he may already be a criminal in the making. The military does not need nor want any more scammers than it already has.

I do think it's stealing through conversion. I've seen waiters comp drinks to people for free expecting a larger tip from it. Thing is, it is a lot of lost revenue for the restaurant at $3 per soda when you add it all up. Plus the people would be tipping 20% on the price of those sodas anyways.

I don't think the owner can prove or make him repay $5k. It would be a very tough road for him to prove that and win in court. As proper recourse, I would try to work something out with him. Work for free for a week or something like that.

Very little info but my question is why didn't his supervisor do something before now. Was he trained? Did anyone follow up to ensure he was following policy?

I not saying let the kid off if he was doing it intentional but the restaurant needs to do a better job here.

$5,000?

This owner is FULL of SHIT.

Dumb kids make dumb mistakes as part of growing up. Pizza owner has a tough road. Probably best if he fires the kid and moves on. Kid needs to be set straight if he is on the wrong path. I wonder if it's his scheme or if he's too weak to not take part in something he knows is wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
$5,000?

This owner is FULL of SHIT.

Up to his eyeballs in shit.

If he is a minor serving alcohol, the owner my have violated the law. Almost every place I know, you have to be 18 to serve booze.

As for the $5000 dollars, it would likely be damn near impossible for a minor aged student working part time to seek that much in non-alcoholic drinks.

Not a lawyer, spent a lot of time working restaurants. In short: horsecrap. It's a shake-down. What moron lets someone walk $5k, $5 at a time without saying something a few offenses into it? I'd tell the owner to vigorously procreate with himself.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
I do think it's stealing through conversion. I've seen waiters comp drinks to people for free expecting a larger tip from it. Thing is, it is a lot of lost revenue for the restaurant at $3 per soda when you add it all up. Plus the people would be tipping 20% on the price of those sodas anyways.

I don't think the owner can prove or make him repay $5k. It would be a very tough road for him to prove that and win in court. As proper recourse, I would try to work something out with him. Work for free for a week or something like that.

Working for free ain't legal, either. Not the way you and others are proposing.

what's a minor doing serving alcohol? Illegal here in VA.

Owner's either a poor businessman slow to recognize theft or a shakedown artist. If he's a shakedown artist, this is not likely his first attempt, then work the employee grapevine. If the kid really is a good kid, and we believe he's innocent, go to the mat for him. If he's likely guilty, and the owner is wronged, settle it with him, have the kid work it off, etc. A decent person won't ruin someone's future if given a reasonable option.

quote:

Originally posted by jigray3:
what's a minor doing serving alcohol? Illegal here in VA.

The OP never said a word about alcohol, it's just you and others jumping to conclusions.

Bottom line, this scumbag of a pizza shop owner is trying to SCAM a young kid out of 5 grand for FRIGGIN SODA.

OP, my advice to the mother is to tell her to have her son tell this guy to eat shit, and quit the place.

1) What evidence does he have? Video? Admission of guilt? Signed admission of guilt? Witnesses?

2) Can they prove intent? Its only a crime if he intended to defraud or steal, and they can prove that intent. Perhaps junior was not aware how to ring up a soda, didn't know where the proper button was, and never asked for clarification/help from the owner? Was he properly trained on the point of sale software? Was he offered any remedial training on the point of sale software?

3) $5000 worth of soda? That's 1,666 to 2500 average cost restaurant soda's. That's a long time to go unnoticed.

Part of me says that junior should do the right thing and make whole the store operator, and part of me says to tell the store operator that junior is going into the military, is sorry for any issues he has caused, and to basically pound sand. I'm torn on this one on the proper response.

Most restaurants are not really a high dollar enterprise and they really do depend on soda sales to keep them profitable.

I would say it depends on the laws where you live.

In Michigan an individual has to be 18 to serve alcohol, so the owner would be in trouble for having the kid serve people. It is also illegal for an establishment with a liquor license to provide alcoholic beverages free of charge, much the same as someone without a license to charge for alcohol. Although the server can be charged, usually the bar is fined too and can lose the license.

Normally the best option here for something like that is to just fire the employee and move on. If it's soda the kid isn't charging for, then this is sort of stupid. Talk to the kid, dock his pay for a week, then move on. If he does it again, fire him.

With that said, it is not uncommon to get a free drink now and again, if you are an established customer.

Ask a lawyer.

In California those under 18 (maybe 21?) are not allowed to handle alcoholic drinks in any manner including busing the drinkware when not completely empty.

Have mom get a free consultation from a labor relations lawyer.

Why did he do it?

Was he giving free sodas to friends? Was he charging the customers, pocketing the money for himself instead of ringing them up?

This happens all the time and I am assuming these servers are looking to boost their tip level.

It works in reverse for me as a) if I catch the mistake, I bring it to their attention and make them correct it. I reduce their tip percentage because of the mistake. or b) if I miss the mistake, I am tipping on a smaller base line, and they thus receive less of a overall tip.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by BurtonRW:
1) Giving away product intentionally is absolutely theft by unlawful conversion, just like any other, but good luck proving $5K in damages.

And I seriously doubt that any prosecutor could be convinced to bring any charges.

Around here the cops file the charges on petty shit like this. I'm sure the State's Attorney pleas out 99% of them, but in high school, I personally witnessed multiple perp walks from food court restaurants for similar offenses (giving away product to friends/family).

All we ever did was fire people, but I have done that on the spot. Free drinks for your friends? You're done. Return the uniform tomorrow. Thanks.

-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
My guess is that he may already be a criminal in the making. The military does not need nor want any more scammers than it already has.

Oh for chrissakes. Some of y'all need to relax a bit. This whole thing is ridiculous. In fact we don't even know all the details. Kids do stupid stuff and kids make mistakes. I seriously doubt this one needs to be condemned to thug life because he either mistakenly or purposefully didn't charge a customer for a Coke.

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph...

And why is everyone assuming alcohol is involved? A lot of assumptions in this thread based on almost zero information.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
My guess is that he may already be a criminal in the making. The military does not need nor want any more scammers than it already has.

Oh for chrissakes. Some of y'all need to relax a bit. This whole thing is ridiculous. In fact we don't even know all the details. Kids do stupid stuff and kids make mistakes. I seriously doubt this one needs to be condemned to thug life because he either mistakenly or purposefully didn't charge a customer for a Coke.

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph...

And why is everyone assuming alcohol is involved? A lot of assumptions in this thread based on almost zero information.

Examining the possibility that alcohol is involved is part of analyzing the potential for various outcomes. If none was, it might go one way; if it was, the outcomes might change significantly, depending. It might not matter if the law allows minors to serve alcohol, and we don't know that, either,

That information is not provided, of course, so we are dealing with possibilities.

You need the facts, the details, to decide, but not to analyze. Nobody here will be deciding. That's for the parties involved. Many will learn from reading this about some potential outcomes they had not considered, however.

This happens all the time in shooting scenarios. Folks take the account of what happened, accurate and complete or not, and start analyzing the event, plugging in various assumptions, varying, testing, to see what conclusions might be justified. It is often instructive, and sometimes entertaining, but always harmless.