From now on, My kids if, and when they visit, will:

Yell, "hello. it's ""!" They will do so until my wife or I respond.

Maybe a chain door latch? That way they have to holler if you are home (and latched)

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:

turn the phones on...if you needed to call 911 do you want to have to wait for the phone to boot up.

His phones were not turned off. They were using the "Do Not Disturb" setting. In this mode the phones are fully functional except that they do not ring for incoming calls.

There is no "wait for the phone to boot up." All outgoing calls, including calls to 911, work just fine.

Think of an old fashioned phone with the ringer turned off at bed time. That is essentially what the "Do Not Disturb" setting does on the OP's phones.

quote:

… pointing a loaded gun at a family member is not right.

At what turned out to be a family member. This was not known at the time.

Any gun with a WML points where the light does. (An argument often made against them, but there are counter-arguments for them as well.) Should we not use them, then?

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
I don't think you did anything wrong here. IMO you did everything right. Who wouldn't investigate unexpected noise in the middle of the night? You didn't have your finger on the trigger of the gun and you identified the target with the aid of a light and the visual cue of the dog's behavior. Arguably, you could have set up the identification protocol for an unannounced visit earlier, but you know what they say about hindsight.

My thoughts as well. Lucky, yes, but that was a result of proper protocol.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
2 things

get a flashlight and tell your daughter to call next time. even if it is 130 in the morning!!!

No shit. Hand-held flashlight is right next to the HD pistol.

Anyone who shows up at 130am unannounced can expect a drawn pistol at my side and 1000 lumens to their eyes until I know who they are.

I don't see why you are freaking out though - you didn't fire (and shouldn't have had your trigger on the finger) until you identified the target as someone in need of shooting.

Obviously your big error is using a WML flashlight as a searching tool. Get a handheld and use that.

Even then, in a pinch sweeping an unidentified person with a WML to ID isn't a huge deal.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
a flashlight not a weapon light!!!

Not certain of your point.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
and turn the phones on...if you needed to call 911 do you want to have to wait for the phone to boot up.

They had them on Do Not Disturb, not turned off.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
egregore....pointing a loaded gun at a family member is not right.

He did not know it was a family member until he activated his weapon light.

I will add this: I was never a believer in WMLs, until one time a story was posted here about somebody who'd shot and killed a family member in the dark. If only he'd had a WML. Or used a flashlight. Para commented he wouldn't have a home defence weapon without a WML. I scoffed to myself at the time, but the thought stuck. Both the AR I later built and the P320 I later bought for HD have WMLs on them and I wouldn't have it otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
IMHO code words seem like an unnecessary complication.

Agreed.

I understand your feelings, Dreamerx4, but I agree with many others: I think you did well and should have nothing to regret.

Well, there is also proper use of a WML to consider...you can activate the light at the low ready (not be pointing at anyone) and still ID the target.

I like my WML, it gives me somewhere to put my finger on the switch other than the trigger. If it is something bad, I have a good two handed grip on it for a more secured shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
Well, there is also proper use of a WML to consider...you can activate the light at the low ready (not be pointing at anyone) and still ID the target.

And it won't wipe out your night vision nearly as badly.

However: Then you also lose the (potential) target startlement factor.

I've told this story before so I'll repeat it briefly here. In the early years of rails and weapon lights I dismissed them as 'tacticool' devices for wannabees. One early morning, my eldest snuck out of the house to hang with friends. On his return he snuck back in but went for the refrigerator.......because pot. I heard the noises and 'knowing' everyone was in bed and accounted for, I stalked to intruder with a 2340 in the dark. Gun presented and ready to fire, I had the presence of mind to hit the lights with my elbow. It was my son standing there with the milk jug.

I went out and bought a weapon light and adaptor because The image of Jr DF #1 frozen in my sight picture is etched in my mind forever. Incidentally, light from a weapon light can be cast without painting the target directly...

As others have already said, you did everything right, and nothing wrong. There is a good reason shooters are trained not to put a finger on the trigger until they are ready to destroy a target. You were given the time to mentally process the information and avoid a tragedy. Kudos.

My house layout is somewhat different than yours I'm sure. All the family members are upstairs, and the three alarm pads in the house automatically chime when any single entry point is breached. In my position, I have the time and cover to safely make a verbal challenge without endangering anyone living in the home. That is always an option if it does not put your family at risk, and would avoid even lighting up your daughter.

Very glad it worked out. Our older Son just turned 22, would come home at wee hours from college occasionally. Most of the time we knew it was likely to happen.

We live in a lower likelihood of intrusion neighborhood. Other than that our German Shepherd makes sure no one will be sleeping if a stranger comes near the house.

I’m more inclined to think a surprise visitor here is a family member. A few years back near Chicago a current or former Law Officer shot his own Son when he came by late one night.

I also like the idea of a flashlight not attached to a gun, though I have nothing against gun mounted lights.

quote:

Originally posted by Dreamerx4:
From now on, My kids if, and when they visit, will:

Yell, "hello. it's ""!" They will do so until my wife or I respond.

They're adults. They can understand simple instructions like "do not walk into my house unless you have spoken to us or gotten a text in reply that we got the message you are coming."

That's a scary encounter.

You might also consider setting your alarm to "instant" when you're in the house rather than normal arming.

quote:

Originally posted by Dreamerx4:
From now on, My kids if, and when they visit, will:

Yell, "hello. it's ""!" They will do so until my wife or I respond.

This is exactly what we've told our kids.

Wife and I are alone and unless it's an urgent or emergency reason, there's no reason for any of them to come over. They all have keys to the house but with the key, they've been told, there comes one rule with the highest degree of responsibility.

you know, with LED bulbs you can leave a few lights on, like permanently

Nausea was a pure adrenalin dump. It's very common following a true adrenalin rush.

You instinctively did the right thing, since everything turned out well.

On a different note: A separate light does help, but addressing some of the comments regarding pointing any weapon or light up, its current practice in CQB to aim in the direction of the intruder - anything pointing up or in another direction (other than at the intruder) is providing ambient light which reveals your position clearer than pointing directly at the intruder. Lights nowadays, regardless if they are WM or not, tend to blind or confuse, not provide an intruder with a reference point to shoot, especially within the few seconds the SHTF.

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:

quote:

Originally posted by Dreamerx4:
From now on, My kids if, and when they visit, will:

Yell, "hello. it's ""!" They will do so until my wife or I respond.

They're adults. They can understand simple instructions like "do not walk into my house unless you have spoken to us or gotten a text in reply that we got the message you are coming."

That's a scary encounter.

You might also consider setting your alarm to "instant" when you're in the house rather than normal arming.

I don't have it set to immediate, because honestly I and my wife forget often to disable it before we let our dog out in the am. It is already a rush to turn it off when that happens.

We use simplisafe, and if memory serves, the motion detectors don't work in the home setting... so we set it for away, which has the delay...so you can come home, open door, and turn off alarm...

Need to look into this, it was goofy, and I honestly don't remember.

Something others can learn from this.

Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
2 things

get a flashlight and tell your daughter to call next time. even if it is 130 in the morning!!!

No shit. Hand-held flashlight is right next to the HD pistol.

Anyone who shows up at 130am unannounced can expect a drawn pistol at my side and 1000 lumens to their eyes until I know who they are.

I don't see why you are freaking out though - you didn't fire (and shouldn't have had your trigger on the finger) until you identified the target as someone in need of shooting.

Obviously your big error is using a WML flashlight as a searching tool. Get a handheld and use that.

Even then, in a pinch sweeping an unidentified person with a WML to ID isn't a huge deal.

Because of lighting at night in my house I choose not to use a WML but have a flashlight on my nightstand next to my handgun. It’s 9000 lumens so it will light up most of my house if needed. Nobody comes into my house without me knowing,not my daughter not my wife but I realize that doesn’t work for everyone. I can understand what the OP went through and I’d probably react the same way.

lots of good advice and assurance, thanks!

I could not post on Saturday, it bothered me tremendously. Has taken awhile to get back on track.

Thoughts of what if's poured in and were honestly pretty overwhelming.

No training prepared me for that.

I have been in emergency situations, life and death. Military and an EMT. Experienced some pretty gnarly things in my life.

The thought of harming my daughter, or any loved one... like nothing else I have felt. I can't overstate enough, how close I was. I did most things right, and it still ALMOST went sideways.

Identifying themselves seems so "duh".

Empty nest, coming and going for years of high school and college. Expecting that, growing complacent with that, I don't know. Will do from now on!

I KNEW no one was coming, even with things that should have helped that conclusion, dog relaxed, alarm not sounding. She turned it off, and back on, so the beeping in the same during the delay... Just all added to the confusion.

I have mentally prepared to yell expletives in the instance, I didn't, I yelled my daughters name. It was instantaneous.

Hope this helps others, and saves you from the same feeling.