quote:

Originally posted by jprebb:
Do you have a Micro Center near by? They will literally hold your hand and help you select the parts for your build.

I just checked and there is one in Saint David's, PA.

Yes, I mentioned in my OP I planned to go there for my parts plus online. Been going there for 20+ years now, I love that place, it's just outside of Philly.

quote:

Originally posted by Largefarva:
Since you have a Micro Center nearby just skip building something and buy one of their house brand computers (powerspec). It’s a great bang for your buck price which will very well likely be cheaper than if you build yourself. I just bought a powerspec gaming pc from them two weekends ago and it’s a beast.

Thanks for this. I am in a similar position as the OP, and have a Micro Center nearby (LOVE THAT PLACE!!!). After a cursory look at the PowerSpec machines, I agree, tough to build one from scratch for less than I can buy a PowerSpec for. I need to look more in depth, but thanks for the tip!

Building yourself isn’t cheaper than buying pre-built for a simple PC these days, put it is for a higher end system with upgraded graphics/power/cooling. If you aren’t playing games that require a dedicated graphics card, then an OEM pc will be the cheapest.

The cheapest way to build a simple PC for personal use is NOT to build a small form factor system. MATX and ATX sizes motherboards can be had cheaper than ITX. The cheapest cases are going to be commodity mid-tower designs. ATX power supplies can also be had cheaper than smaller SFX power supplies. Building small actually costs more for a home builder. I’ve still built several small systems just because I like doing it, but it wasn’t the most cost effective way to go.

Plenty of folks already made good hardware suggestions, so I will keep this part short: definitely get an SSD, but it’s OK if you save some money and don’t go all the way to an NVME drive. I still like to have a spinning drive around to store backups, but that can be an external USB disk if you don’t want to put one inside the PC. If you are NOT going to purchase a separate graphics card, Intel CPUs are a safe bet, just don’t buy one with a model number that end in F. So, an i5-9400 would be good, but an i5-9400F would not. The F means it does NOT have integrated graphics. An AMD 3400G would also be a solid choice if you find one for a better price. If you are going to use an external graphics card, AMD’s 3600 and higher processors are far and away a better value than Intels offerings at the same prices

- Bret

Plug your parts in here, it will give you some warnings if it finds any incompatibilities with your part list.
https://pcpartpicker.com/

It's also not a bad idea to verify RAM and HDD/SSD model numbers with your MOBO manufacturers compatibility list.

I like MC fine however they are over 100 miles from me. I can't speak to their return policies but I like to stick with Amazon when I can for their simple return policy. New Egg tried to blame me for a DOA MOBO. Since then I won't buy from them unless it's a very good deal, and definitely not a MOBO.

quote:

Originally posted by Xer0:

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
Get a spare hard drive. SSD drives will fail at some point because the memory cells can only cycle for about 5000 read/write cycles. When you start losing memory cells they will eventually throw up enough errors that they become non functional.

This is awful. While you may have had issues with SSD's your explanation about how SSD's work and why he should have a spare hard drive is pure junk.

I'm not sure what to think of that either, Xer0. If true, why would I ever consider purchasing a SSD drive?

I hate threads like this. I read some of the thread... then start looking at my PC (a hand-me-down that I've had for almost six years)... then reading more of the thread... then I start salivating like one of Pavlov's dogs.

quote:

Originally posted by sadlerbw:

Building yourself isn’t cheaper than buying pre-built for a simple PC these days

sadlerbw:

What's your thoughts on this Lenovo refurb from Micro Center?

Intel Core i5 4570T 2.9GHz Processor; 8GB DDR3-1333 RAM; 512GB SSD; Intel HD Graphics 4600
Win10 Pro

Lenovo ThinkCentre

All it looks like I'd need is a WiFi adapter.

quote:

Originally posted by Xer0:

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
Get a spare hard drive. SSD drives will fail at some point because the memory cells can only cycle for about 5000 read/write cycles. When you start losing memory cells they will eventually throw up enough errors that they become non functional.

This is awful. While you may have had issues with SSD's your explanation about how SSD's work and why he should have a spare hard drive is pure junk.

Talk to any working computer repairman and they will tell you that ALL hard drives will fail at some point. With the low cost of hard drives today only a fool would not have a spare hard drive in their closet. If that drive happens to be a Clone when the primary drive fails the Repair is to swap in that Clone and you are back up and running without having to fuss with restoring a full backup or running out to the store to get whatever drive they have in stock.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:

quote:

Originally posted by Xer0:

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
Get a spare hard drive. SSD drives will fail at some point because the memory cells can only cycle for about 5000 read/write cycles. When you start losing memory cells they will eventually throw up enough errors that they become non functional.

This is awful. While you may have had issues with SSD's your explanation about how SSD's work and why he should have a spare hard drive is pure junk.

Talk to any working computer repairman and they will tell you that ALL hard drives will fail at some point. With the low cost of hard drives today only a fool would not have a spare hard drive in their closet. If that drive happens to be a Clone when the primary drive fails the Repair is to swap in that Clone and you are back up and running without having to fuss with restoring a full backup or running out to the store to get whatever drive they have in stock.

Everything has a "life" but keeping a non-current clone of the original is a poor strategy.
A proper backup strategy would include something more current.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:

quote:

Originally posted by sadlerbw:

Building yourself isn’t cheaper than buying pre-built for a simple PC these days

sadlerbw:

What's your thoughts on this Lenovo refurb from Micro Center?

Intel Core i5 4570T 2.9GHz Processor; 8GB DDR3-1333 RAM; 512GB SSD; Intel HD Graphics 4600
Win10 Pro

Lenovo ThinkCentre

All it looks like I'd need is a WiFi adapter.

Biggest issue is that it is only using one stick of RAM. Even with the same capacity, using both RAM slots is a noticeable performance boost. 8GB is a little on the low side for memory anyway, so I’d look at adding another 8GB of memory, or just replacing the existing memory with a 16GB kit that includes 2x8Gb sticks.

Next issue is that the CPU is de-rated due to the tiny size. In these super-small systems they basically stick a cooler from a laptop onto a desktop CPU, and limit how fast it can run so it doesn’t overheat. In fact, I think the best way to describe this PC is that it is a laptop without a screen. It even uses a Lenovo laptop power brick to power it.

I can’t tell what the price was, but I think something like one of these would be a better value, even though it is physically larger:

Lenovo M93P refurb

Lenovo M900 refurb

I think both of those have two sticks of RAM, a real power supply, and a CPU running at its full rated power. The one you linked, I think you are actually paying more just for the tiny size, and giving up performance to get that size.

- Bret

quote:

Originally posted by sadlerbw:

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:

quote:

Originally posted by sadlerbw:

Building yourself isn’t cheaper than buying pre-built for a simple PC these days

sadlerbw:

What's your thoughts on this Lenovo refurb from Micro Center?

Intel Core i5 4570T 2.9GHz Processor; 8GB DDR3-1333 RAM; 512GB SSD; Intel HD Graphics 4600
Win10 Pro

Lenovo ThinkCentre

All it looks like I'd need is a WiFi adapter.

Biggest issue is that it is only using one stick of RAM. Even with the same capacity, using both RAM slots is a noticeable performance boost. 8GB is a little on the low side for memory anyway, so I’d look at adding another 8GB of memory, or just replacing the existing memory with a 16GB kit that includes 2x8Gb sticks.

Next issue is that the CPU is de-rated due to the tiny size. In these super-small systems they basically stick a cooler from a laptop onto a desktop CPU, and limit how fast it can run so it doesn’t overheat. In fact, I think the best way to describe this PC is that it is a laptop without a screen. It even uses a Lenovo laptop power brick to power it.

I can’t tell what the price was, but I think something like one of these would be a better value, even though it is physically larger:

Lenovo M93P refurb

Lenovo M900 refurb

I think both of those have two sticks of RAM, a real power supply, and a CPU running at its full rated power. The one you linked, I think you are actually paying more just for the tiny size, and giving up performance to get that size.

- Bret

It is also an ancient Gen 4 CPU (currently 9/10) and obsolete DDR3 RAM.
Note: small footprint is not that much more expensive if you know how to put it together.
A larger box usually just offers more options for expansion.
ITX mb's and small form factor cases will perform just as well and if you do not need to expand with a lot of cards such as graphics then it is very viable option.
Again, only slightly more expensive but not a deal breaker, if you are a HD power user ~ gamer or CAD then by all means consider a box with more options.
Additionally, the M2 SSD NVMe drives offer significant performance improvements and that includes some great graphics.

I purchased a few MINISFORUM computer for a business application that requires little processing power. They are low power celeron models but they have them up to i3 processors. They are TINY and some of the lower powered models are fanless. I currently have 3 in use with good reliability so far.

https://www.amazon.com/minisforum

quote:

Originally posted by sadlerbw:


I can’t tell what the price was, but I think something like one of these would be a better value, even though it is physically larger:

Lenovo M93P refurb

Lenovo M900 refurb

I think both of those have two sticks of RAM, a real power supply, and a CPU running at its full rated power. The one you linked, I think you are actually paying more just for the tiny size, and giving up performance to get that size.

- Bret

Thanks for the insight and recommendations!

Looks like my local Micro Center has the M93P's in stock for $279.99

You are right, I'd never be able to build one for that price.

Hard drives wear out. Of all types. Most are designed to last the life of a consumer grade rig on average. Some die sooner than others. No big deal.

Create a regular backup scheme. If the drive dies, walk into a store and buy a replacement drive of a larger size, and just rebuild from your backup. The new drive will be cheaper per GB, and possibly newer technology. No reason to keep a spare drive on-hand slowly becoming obsolete.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
Tips

Whatever motherboard you choose get two of them. Every time a computer I use goes down it's always due to the same cause, a capacitor on the motherboard gets fried and it generally fails in the third year of use. ....

You may want to consider addressing the power quality issues in your house. Whole house surge protector, make sure the house grounding is done properly, and use a UPS with good surge protection built into it.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
It is also an ancient Gen 4 CPU (currently 9/10) and obsolete DDR3 RAM.
Note: small footprint is not that much more expensive if you know how to put it together.
A larger box usually just offers more options for expansion.
ITX mb's and small form factor cases will perform just as well and if you do not need to expand with a lot of cards such as graphics then it is very viable option.
Again, only slightly more expensive but not a deal breaker, if you are a HD power user ~ gamer or CAD then by all means consider a box with more options.
Additionally, the M2 SSD NVMe drives offer significant performance improvements and that includes some great graphics.

It is an older system, but if you are doing web browsing and productivity apps, it actually feels quick enough. I have a system with an i5-3570, 16GB of RAM and a fairly old SSD, and while I’ve personally retired it from daily use, it does still get used for basic MS Office stuff and browsing in our house. Since I’ve actually used that system recently, I feel confident saying that an i5-4570 with two sticks of RAM and an SSD will be ok, for what the OP will be doing.

Of course the reason those systems and the one the OP asked about are so cheap is that they are refurbs. To buy a brand new PC with a 4-core or better CPU, 16GB of memory, and an SSD of some sort, you are looking at $500-600, but you get brand new everything and more than a 90 day warranty. You can try to split the difference and do a little of both, like buying a system with less memory and a normal HDD and buying an SSD and more memory yourself, or hitting eBay for some used parts. Of course, then you are paying with your time rather than your cash. It’s up to you how much time you want to spend versus money.

- Bret

quote:

Originally posted by sadlerbw:

It is an older system, but if you are doing web browsing and productivity apps, it actually feels quick enough.

I feel confident saying that an i5-4570 with two sticks of RAM and an SSD will be ok, for what the OP will be doing.

Of course the reason those systems and the one the OP asked about are so cheap is that they are refurbs. To buy a brand new PC with a 4-core or better CPU, 16GB of memory, and an SSD of some sort, you are looking at $500-600, but you get brand new everything and more than a 90 day warranty. You can try to split the difference and do a little of both, like buying a system with less memory and a normal HDD and buying an SSD and more memory yourself, or hitting eBay for some used parts. Of course, then you are paying with your time rather than your cash. It’s up to you how much time you want to spend versus money.

- Bret

Bret, I have been building, testing, benchmarking and selling systems for 25 years professionally.
I know what they can do, if an older system will do and it's good enough for you (or anyone else) then by all means let it do it.
Originally the OP was inquiring about building a new computer.
It's all good.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Hard drives wear out. Of all types. Most are designed to last the life of a consumer grade rig on average. Some die sooner than others. No big deal.

Create a regular backup scheme. If the drive dies, walk into a store and buy a replacement drive of a larger size, and just rebuild from your backup. The new drive will be cheaper per GB, and possibly newer technology. No reason to keep a spare drive on-hand slowly becoming obsolete.

To add to this recommendation, if you really want to make your recovery life simply spend a couple more bucks and configure your new machine with two drives...one SSD boot drive (mine is a 480gb Toshiba), and one storage drive (mine is a 4gb WD 7200rpm spinning drive). Then backup both drives separately on a regular basis. If one drive fails, install a new drive in its place and restore the appropriate backup and you're back up and running in no time.