And for the record, regarding houses, I'm not saying it's not a shitty thing. I'm just explaining the legality of it. But sellers are allowed to consider all offers. Some are cash, some are subject to financing, conditioned on appraisal, conditioned on inspection, etc., and some might be for over the asking price.

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If Best Buy advertises a Black Friday deal and is very specific about "Doorbuster: TV normally $500 for $99, first five customers", that is very specific, and they need to have five to sell at that price.

If you advertise a house for $250,000, and somebody shows up with $250,000 and no other contingencies, you should be legally and morally obligated to sell it.

If you want $300,000, then list it for $300,000.

And for the sake of full disclosure, I have had my real estate license twice, own investment properties, and come from a family of residential developers. The only reason my version of how it should be doesn't exist is because it would mean less money for Realtors, and they have lobbyists to ensure that doesn't happen. There's absolutely no reason that it should be as complicated or cost as much as it does.

Last Fall a relative sold a house in Seattle. In just 2 days they had 8 offers above listing price. It sold for about 80 grand above listing price. Who in there right mind would sell a house for listing price when offers roll in like that?

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Who in there right mind would sell a house for listing price when offers roll in like that?

Who in their right mind would list it for $80,000 less than market value to begin with?

You had a real estate license (twice apparently) but you seem confounded that a seller doesn’t know the actual price that a house is “worth”. You know “market value” is nearly a meaningless term. Market value is in reality whatever the market will bear. No one knows what that is until the transaction is complete. I don’t know why this bunches your panties. You keep saying it’s wrong legally and morally. Well you know full well it isn’t illegal. You know this to be a fact. Produce any case law that supports your position. You can’t. If I put my house on the market and get a dozen offers above ask I can still turn every single one down quite legally. There is no contract until there is a contract. Why does this basic point elude you? In your world of black and white does a seller get to prioritize cash offers over financed? Home inspection list vs as is offers? Long close, rent backs, do any of these warrant the seller choosing an offer to their liking, even gasp an offer for less but that works better for the seller in other ways? Where exactly did you get your real estate license that they convinced you this was somehow illegal?

Back to subject matter. One of my sisters sold her home in California and wanted to move out to Florida. She’s flush with cash but had a few specific things that were deal breakers. Me and the wife looked at dozens of houses over 6 months for her. This market is unlike any I have ever seen. Availability is thin. Prices are sky high. Patience is a virtue though because she (me) stumbled onto a perfect house walking distance from ours. Renovated nicely, new pool, everything is just about perfect. She closes in a week or so. Take your time don’t rush in this market, don’t get carried away. Good luck.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:

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If Best Buy advertises a Black Friday deal and is very specific about "Doorbuster: TV normally $500 for $99, first five customers", that is very specific, and they need to have five to sell at that price.

If you advertise a house for $250,000, and somebody shows up with $250,000 and no other contingencies, you should be legally and morally obligated to sell it.

If you want $300,000, then list it for $300,000.

And for the sake of full disclosure, I have had my real estate license twice, own investment properties, and come from a family of residential developers. The only reason my version of how it should be doesn't exist is because it would mean less money for Realtors, and they have lobbyists to ensure that doesn't happen. There's absolutely no reason that it should be as complicated or cost as much as it does.

As previously licensed realtor you know the commission of an extra $45k isn’t huge. As a homeowner it is. The homeowners should be able to listen to all offers and not just the first guy to get his offer in. It’s not a sales price it’s a starting point for negotiations to begin which as mentioned above can include many things other than sales price.

He was simply out-bid. We get around this by buying homes that are still under construction. We just put or names down on a new construction list in Saint Cloud, so when our number comes up, we're done.

That's how we got in on our current house here in OR. We didn't participate in the bidding wars at all.

You have to deal with a HOA, but you don't have to worry about being out-bid on a home.

Tony.

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You had a real estate license (twice apparently) but you seem confounded that a seller doesn’t know the actual price that a house is “worth”.

Yes. As it is currently, the real estate agent is supposed to use comps to determine the fair market value. Do you think a seller would hear an agent say "you should list it for $250K" and then turn around and list it for $200?

Now flip that around. "We should list it for $200 even though we'll never accept that. It will start a bidding war, and because people get caught up in bidding situations we can get $275"

Again, great if it's an auction.

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You know “market value” is nearly a meaningless term. Market value is in reality whatever the market will bear. No one knows what that is until the transaction is complete.

No, it's actually not that difficult unless you have some really unique property.

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You keep saying it’s wrong legally and morally. Well you know full well it isn’t illegal. You know this to be a fact. Produce any case law that supports your position. You can’t. If I put my house on the market and get a dozen offers above ask I can still turn every single one down quite legally.

No, no, no. I said it SHOULD be illegal. Morally if you offer something for sale, for a price, you should be willing to accept that price.

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In your world of black and white does a seller get to prioritize cash offers over financed? Home inspection list vs as is offers? Long close, rent backs, do any of these warrant the seller choosing an offer to their liking, even gasp an offer for less but that works better for the seller in other ways?

Once again, you seem to have missed everything I've said. I didn't say anything about contingencies.

I said that if you list something for a price, and somebody offers you that price, you should accept it. If the person offering is suggesting terms other than paying you what you're asking, that's an entirely different ball of wax.

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As previously licensed realtor you know the commission of an extra $45k isn’t huge. As a homeowner it is. The homeowners should be able to listen to all offers since and not just the first guy to get his offer in. It’s not a sales price it’s a starting point for negotiations to begin which as mentioned above can include many things other than sales price.

That's what an auction is. A starting point with a series of escalating bids. I have no problem with auctions.

Listing an item for sale is assigning a price that you're willing to accept. I have no problem listing things for sale.

What I have a problem with is somebody listing something for sale with the underlying intent of conducting an auction. I'm just asking that people be upfront and stop wasting the time of others who may be missing out on other deals due to the nonsense.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:

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Who in there right mind would sell a house for listing price when offers roll in like that?

Who in their right mind would list it for $80,000 less than market value to begin with?

With how fast the market is moving in many states it not always easy to pinpoint the value, especially if you don’t have a similar house nearby that has sold recently.

It also protects the buyers from realtors who like to list it low so it sells fast and they can move on quickly to the next one. You can list it low but that might create a bidding war in a hot market.

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Originally posted by PASig:

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Originally posted by HRK:
Have to agree, you met their asking price plus $5K and they countered?

Might call Dan Newlan or John Morgan, wonder if they breached contract since they offered a price for the product that you met, or, if by offering over, you re-started the negotiation, be interesting to know.

What contract would that be?

It’s just an insane seller’s market in one of the hottest parts of the entire USA

Exactly. There is no contract. There is a bid sheet with a starting bid price and that’s all. The homeowner hasn’t signed anything and will not sign anything until the final offer is accepted.

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It also protects the buyers from realtors who like to list it low so it sells fast and they can move on quickly to the next one. You can list it low but that might create a bidding war in a hot market.

I get that. And if it only happened some of the time I would agree. But that's not what's happening is it?

So either all of these agents are completely incompetent and can't figure out how to run comps, OR....it's intentional. If you want to be intentional, then get an auctioneer's license (if one is required in your state) and conduct an auction. Heck, put a reserve on it.

But don't try to do both and flip and flop to whichever suits your interest at the moment. Pick one.

We came down to Florida this weekend last year to buy a house. I’m just east of Pensacola. We made a bid on a house for over the ask at a $ per sq foot price I thought was fair based on comps. Solid pre approval letter and close in 30 days. They rejected us. Found a better house coming on the market in 2 days. Switched raptors to one actually in this neighborhood and offered less and they accepted. Closed in 40 days to give the tenants time to move out. I think we got the house because the bedrooms were painted some funky colors and some other decorative issues that may have turned others off. Since we had months to finish our sale and kids in school. We had time to get interior painted and cleaned and it looks normal. I followed up on the original house and they took 6 months to close for the same price we offered and the buyer needed a lot more fiancing ( my offer was stronger) so who knows what sellers think. I’m glad we got this house. Its almost too big for us. I enjoy the acreage and wooded back lot and no HOA. And neighbors are the nicest folks you could ask for.

So now I’m trying to find a rental to buy and can’t find a good multi unit rental. They all go same day if priced well or they really beat to shit.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:

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They eventually countered at $50K over asking. We passed.

Although some will attempt to explain how this is perfectly acceptable with real estate (yet not with anything else), I believe it should be criminal.

If you ask a price, you should be willing to accept your asking price. Period.

If you want to see how much you can get, auction it. If you want to sell it, state a price and be prepared to accept it.

Yet it just isn't working like that in the Orlando area right now given how ridiculously hot this market is. You might opt to list your home for what you'd consider a rather high price. When it hits listing a feeding frenzy ensues and people start throwing stupid offers at the house. You set your price, but now everyone is willing to bid stupid money to try and steal it from other buyers. When there is little to no inventory to shop, this is the insanity that has developed. In the long run, I think some of these people offering absurd prices for these homes are going to feel some real pain when the market adjusts and all of a sudden their home doesn't appraise anywhere near what they paid for it, or what their mortgage is. That also may create quite the issue for the banks if people wake up to the reality they are totally upside down in these homes and opt to cut their losses and bail.

To the Op, shopping homes isn't all that stressful in a regular RE market. Unfortunately you are shopping in anything but a regular market right now. I wish you the best of luck in your search.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:

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Why did that ask for that price in the first place?

Because a real estate agent wanted to start a bidding war. Which would be great if it was an auction and they were licensed auctioneers.

The RE agents have it made right now. Even the hopelessly incompetent ones are getting wealthy. All they have to do is prep a listing, throw it up online, and the potential buyers go nuts throwing money at the listing. They don't have to play auctioneer. The buyers are doing that all on their own.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:

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Who in there right mind would sell a house for listing price when offers roll in like that?

Who in their right mind would list it for $80,000 less than market value to begin with?

Sir, you are not familiar with this market. Homes start out on listing at up to $200k over market value, and some sell. I've seen homes just this year that were listing for $50k over market value, and on the first day they were listed, the owner received 6-8 bids over their already inflated selling price. This market is totally irrational at this point. Hell, I just watched two 2019 Ford F150's sell on CoPart (the insurance auction site) with Salvage titles for more than used pricing would have been on these trucks two years ago. Everything you and I would likely view as regular business practices are totally out the window at this point.

Real estate agents aren’t getting rich. Good god the city my wife works in has literally 2 houses on the market and like hundreds of realtors. My wife is surviving because she does new construction for a builder.

A1 will be happy to know those houses sell for list price. But the absurd “auctioneer” argument gets old. How many offers are all cash, no contingencies? Virtually none. His example hardly exists excepting investor offers. Everyone in real estate knows how it works. Realtors have an obligation to get the best deal for their client. So it’s an auction that’s not called an auction? So it’s an auctioneer license called a realtor license because it’s restricted to homes only. Just semantics but A1 clearly has had something butthurt him about it in the past.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:

If you advertise a house for $250,000, and somebody shows up with $250,000 and no other contingencies, you should be legally and morally obligated to sell it.

You cannot be serious with that comment. For someone who allegedly had a realtor’s license and owns property, that’s the craziest thing I’ve read all day.

“Obligated” to sell something?

It sounds like you got burned in the past and have a grudge against the entire way that real estate is bought and sold in this country.

Am I right?

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Originally posted by 71 TRUCK:
Good luck, What do you consider the Orlando market?

Boone High School district. Staying in Pershing K-8 would be a bonus, but not required. So unfortunately, it's a fairly tight radius which we will consider.

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Originally posted by 9x18:
Any chance you could add on to your present home?

I tried. It took a month to get a contractor I know to check things out. He gave me the name of an architect. Spoke to him once, he told me about 3 weeks to have time to get out. Then 6 weeks later, he was ghosting me and I gave up on him. Checked with a buddy who is retired CEO for a construction company. A mutual acquaintance is an architect, I did not realize that. Spoke to him, then another month went by. And by then 3 months had went by.

Also, the addition would add about 250-300 sq ft. And would cost $50-$60K. Then add on a pool installation, another $60K. Then some work in the kitchen and master bath, another $30-50K.

I came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth it.

Here is what happened with my home sale.

We found our dream home on Monday at noon, literally minutes after it hit the market. We toured it at 6pm. We had the offer in that evening. They were not making a decision until the following Monday.

Tuesday morning comes, ok, what do we do with our house? Start cleaning, start taking stuff to storage. Photographer here on Thursday at lunchtime. Showing scheduled on Friday at noon with a friend of a friend. Open house scheduled for 3 hours Sat and 3 hours Sun. Listing goes live Friday at 11:30am, as agent is driving to our house for the noon showing. By the time she arrives at our house, she has 12:30, 1:00, 1:30, 3:30 and 5:30 showings scheduled. The open house attracts approximately 15 buyers each day. By Monday morning we have 8 offers to sort through. Offers ranged from asking of $389, to asking with escalation clauses up to $415, to one offer that was $420 out of the gate. Many people wrote letters explaining why they wanted our home. One couple was newly engaged looking to start the lives together. Another was a young married couple, former military, husband studying for his PhD. Another was a single mother of a toddler daughter. Some of these offers were contingent on a VA loan. Others were conventional loans. Those conventional loans ranged in down payments from 5% to 20%. The escrow deposits varied from $4K to $50K. Some were willing to pay a certain amount above appraisal.

So, while price is the biggest deciding factor, there are lots of other factors to consider. The single mother had an amazing letter, she connected the dots through social media and realized we have a mutual friend, her offer was the best, her escrow was the best, her financing was very close to the best. And she was willing to close any time between 21 days from now or 2 months from now, with a lease back option for two additional months. Which means we can find another home tomorrow, or 90 days from now.

We accepted her offer for all of these reasons. Most importantly was the flexibility to close and move in. Without that, we probably would have just pulled the listing until we found another home.

And in case you are wondering, in hindsight, I royally screwed up by not paying the extra $25K. The house was listed at $724,900. My escalation clause was $750. The counter was $775. I know they are under contract above $750. But whether it is $751 or $774, I will not know until it sells and becomes public record. While $25K is a lot of money, it relation to a home of that price, it isn't. And that home checked every single box on our wish list. The problem is we had only been looking for a week, we just did not have the frame of reference. And we also felt that that agent did not operate in good faith and we were a little pissed at how he handled things. But I should not have let that anger affect me getting a home.

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Originally posted by holdem:
Here is what happened with my home sale.

Isn’t it amazing to be in a market where people are literally fighting over and kissing your ass and begging you to be allowed to buy your house for way over asking?

It’s nuts, I’ve owned homes since 2007 and actually had started in 2004 and decided to wait and never saw anything like this, even during that crazy housing bubble from 2003-2007 or so.