My wife and I decided to sell our home and upgrade to a larger home. The kids are now teen and pre-teen, which means they require more room. My wife works from home full time and I work from home part time. A 3/2 with 1,300 sq ft no longer works for us.

Less than a week after we decided to do this, we found the perfect home, a 4/2.5, massive 2 car garage with huge decked attic above, and a air conditioned / finished 3rd floor attic, nearly 40 ft long that would have served as a home office for my wife and I. We offered $5K over asking with an escalation clause to $25K over asking. They eventually countered at $50K over asking. We passed.

Another came up that we saw today. A 5/3 in a tree lined neighborhood, amazing landscaping, a beautiful outdoor living space with a pool, an amazing living / dining / kitchen that all flowed perfectly well. The home was built in the 50's and was completely re-done. However, while the finish on the bathrooms had been updated, the size was still the same. These bathrooms were literally the size of cruise ship bathrooms. They were a deal breaker.

And in two weeks of looking those are literally the only two homes we have been able to look at. There is no inventory, at all. We have the luxury of months to look, but dang, at the rate of one home per week in our price range / feature request, I am wondering how this ends.

I have only ever purchased one home in my life. I have never sold one. If I realized exactly how stressful this is, I might have decided to stay put and try to put up with the lack of space.

Having time is good.

I'm not surprised there's basically zero inventory currently. The house selling season is typically late spring and summer. Very few people list during the winter. (That's likely exacerbated by what little is available getting gobbled up basically immediately.)

So an increase in available inventory is just around the corner, but so is a related increase in buyer competition...

I've bought 6 houses and sold 5 so I'm fairly familiar with the process.

It's not as daunting as it looks, and you'll get used to it after a while.

Good luck, What do you consider the Orlando market?

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They eventually countered at $50K over asking. We passed.

Although some will attempt to explain how this is perfectly acceptable with real estate (yet not with anything else), I believe it should be criminal.

If you ask a price, you should be willing to accept your asking price. Period.

If you want to see how much you can get, auction it. If you want to sell it, state a price and be prepared to accept it.

Any chance you could add on to your present home?

Have to agree, you met their asking price plus $5K and they countered?

Might call Dan Newlan or John Morgan, wonder if they breached contract since they offered a price for the product that you met, or, if by offering over, you re-started the negotiation, be interesting to know.

Yes Orlando is hot, everyone up north has moved here, we have two New Yorkers in the neighborhood both paid well over asking.. We like them for that....

A really good friend moved to the Orlando area last year from VA for work. She flew down and spent a few days with a realtor looking at houses and didn't find anything she liked.

Found one once she was back in VA and put an offer in without seeing it in person. I thought that was crazy but that was the only option unless she wanted to be flying down the FL every few days. Had to get an offer in right away or it would be gone.

It turned out fine and it's a great home but that market like most is crazy right now. You have time so keep looking something will pop up.

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Originally posted by HRK:
Have to agree, you met their asking price plus $5K and they countered?

Might call Dan Newlan or John Morgan, wonder if they breached contract since they offered a price for the product that you met, or, if by offering over, you re-started the negotiation, be interesting to know.

What contract would that be?

It’s just an insane seller’s market in one of the hottest parts of the entire USA

That's crazy. You offered more than they asked for and it was not enough? Why did that ask for that price in the first place? UGH.

Hot markets are difficult. We had been watching two zip codes for a couple of years then last spring we decided it was time to jump. Spring break we looked at 15 houses in 10 days in person while looking online at another 20+ before we bought our 2nd home. Prices, OMG! North Texas real estate last year was hyper. Lots of out of state buyers. Houses worth buying didn't last a week on the market, most less than that. A few just a day.

I hope this makes it easy for you. Maybe you got this stuff covered already.

Find the neighborhoods you prefer while the inventory is low. Look for Face book groups of the neighborhood for info on it maybe the HOA. Take notes of what you see so you don't get mixed up on what house had this or that amenity. Get your offer ready before you walkthrough. Sounds like you have that sorted out though.

Build a team of inspectors you trust NOW. Not after you make an offer. General and specific. HVAC, pool, plumbing, termites, roof, foundation/engineer, electric, etc... Did I miss something?

Once you get past the accepted offer, go through it HARD. For us last year, it was daunting. A good way to describe it. Whew.

ETA: Regarding the counter. Say the seller gets multiple offers. The highest is 50k over the ask with a contingency of buyer selling a home. So the seller counters the next highest offer knowing they can get the 50k over but they have to risk that sale of the other house falling through.

Good luck.
-TVz

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Why did that ask for that price in the first place?

Because a real estate agent wanted to start a bidding war. Which would be great if it was an auction and they were licensed auctioneers.

The next thing I see to cool the market is an interest rate hike.
This is a very unusual market, unusual building market and every other sort of market.
If you haven't been in it as a buyer or seller in the last year, this is different.

Having many friends in the homebuilding business in the Orlando area, there is a group buying new build homes to rent out: the Chinese. They're paying over asking (I'm looking at your, DR Horton, and having buyers bid on homes), paying cash, and are easy to build for. They're not picky because they're not living in the home. All they want to know is when they can list the home for rent.

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Originally posted by HRK:
Yes Orlando is hot, everyone up north has moved here, we have two New Yorkers in the neighborhood both paid well over asking.. We like them for that....

You will like them until they or people they bring down start voting like New Yorkers and want to change Florida to the shit hole they fled.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

They eventually countered at $50K over asking. We passed.

Although some will attempt to explain how this is perfectly acceptable with real estate (yet not with anything else), I believe it should be criminal.

If you ask a price, you should be willing to accept your asking price. Period.

If you want to see how much you can get, auction it. If you want to sell it, state a price and be prepared to accept it.

Yeah, that doesn't sound right at all.

"I want $xxx."

"Okay, I'll give you $xxx plus $5,000."

"How about $xxx plus $50,000 instead?"

I know nothing is set until the contracts are signed, but you wanted $50k more then there better be someone offering you $50 more than what you listed the house for.

I realize some things one has few choices. If a move or relocation is at all elective, I’d keep my powder dry for awhile.

Right now the interest rate trend is pointing up, the stock market is somewhat troubling.

How many trends have we been through in the last 20 years? What’s happening now won’t remain forever.

I just wouldn’t be joining the circus.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Have to agree, you met their asking price plus $5K and they countered?

Might call Dan Newlan or John Morgan, wonder if they breached contract since they offered a price for the product that you met, or, if by offering over, you re-started the negotiation, be interesting to know.

Yes Orlando is hot, everyone up north has moved here, we have two New Yorkers in the neighborhood both paid well over asking.. We like them for that....

So my understanding is once you change the parameters of the offer, the originator can also change.

For example, if the original offer was $100K and I offer $105K, the seller can change with a higher amount or, "nope, we want the original amount."

Had the response been, "okay, will take it for $100K" and the seller comes back with a higher amount, that is not good.

What the OP is, in reality, trying to do is prevent the response of, ""well, someone else has already offered a higher amount, now it's a bidding war."

IMO, the seller should have responded with, "another party has already offered $45K over asking, are you willing to do better?" Personally, that is how I would insist my realtor to respond.

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Have to agree, you met their asking price plus $5K and they countered?

Might call Dan Newlan or John Morgan, wonder if they breached contract since they offered a price for the product that you met, or, if by offering over, you re-started the negotiation, be interesting to know.

Yes Orlando is hot, everyone up north has moved here, we have two New Yorkers in the neighborhood both paid well over asking.. We like them for that....

So my understanding is once you change the parameters of the offer, the originator can also change.

For example, if the original offer was $100K and I offer $105K, the seller can change with a higher amount or, "nope, we want the original amount."

Had the response been, "okay, will take it for $100K" and the seller comes back with a higher amount, that is not good.

What the OP is, in reality, trying to do is prevent the response of, ""well, someone else has already offered a higher amount, now it's a bidding war."

IMO, the seller should have responded with, "another party has already offered $45K over asking, are you willing to do better?" Personally, that is how I would insist my realtor to respond.

It’s an asking price not a sales price. The realtor will get all he bids together at the same time and discuss them with the homeowner and then decide how to proceed.

If he offered $5k over and the owners came back with $50k over it’s because the other bidders bid even higher. Most likely one of them had a $45k escalation clause so the owners know they can get the $45k over asking.

With that info in hand they went back to the op and basically said if you want it it’s going to cost you $50k over asking.

I believe that the reason sellers don't just have a higher asking price is because of potential problems with appraisal values. If you ask $200k, it is common for a buyer to offer $200k, subject to appraisal. If the house doesn't appraise for $200k the deal is off. In a hot market, the seller may still ask $200k, but if someone wants to offer $250k, the seller most likely would not accept that offer conditioned on it appraising for $250k. The buyer knows that he will only be able to base financing on the $200k asking price, or whatever it does appraise for.

As for the asking price being an offer to sell, the general rule in contracts law is accepted to be that an advertisement is considered an invitation for offers, and not an offer to sell that can simply be accepted by a buyer. It can be if there is enough specificity, such as date and time of sale, any conditions, etc.

If the advertisement was considered an offer that could be accepted, resulting in a binding contract, problems and complications could arise. Imagine that a house is advertised for sale by Marsha: "123 Main St, for sale, $200,000." Joe shows up 'accepts' the offer. If this creates a binding contract, what happens if Bob shows up 10 minutes later and 'accepts' the offer?

This is just one illustration of a problem that could occur, but the rule is generally that an advertisement is not an "offer".

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but the rule is generally that an advertisement is not an "offer"

It is for just about every other single thing out there. The fed and state powers that be like to refer to it as "bait and switch". If you advertise something for sale, at a price, then you better have that thing available, at that price.

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I believe that the reason sellers don't just have a higher asking price

I believe that the reason that houses are advertised at a price that would never be accepted is because agents encourage it to start a "bidding war". Aren't agents supposed to be professionals? Isn't part of their job to come up with a market value based on similar comps? you can't tell me that if you have a house in a subdivision, and all of the similar houses are selling for X, that your agent has a valid reason to suggest you list it for X minus Y.

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The realtor will get all he bids together

Sounds like the job description of an auctioneer.

How about we just have some honesty in the process? You want an auction, have an auction. You want to list for sale, list for sale. Let's not do both.

And if a real estate agent wishes to act in the capacity of an auctioneer, then they should be required to have the appropriate licenses. I know plenty of local auctioneers that also hold real estate licenses. They do something pretty amazing. They auction real estate, AND they list real estate. They're generally pretty good about not confusing the two.

All of this is what leads to the frustrations voiced by the OP. It wastes so much time of so many people. And don't get me started on the commission concept.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

but the rule is generally that an advertisement is not an "offer"

It is for just about every other single thing out there. The fed and state powers that be like to refer to it as "bait and switch". If you advertise something for sale, at a price, then you better have that thing available, at that price.

That is simply not true. Overwhelmingly advertisements for goods and products are not considered offers to sell. That is true for grocery ads, electronics, almost anything you can think of. The only time they are considered offers that can be accepted is if they are very specific. When you see language like "only one available at this price", "stock number 456A", or "limited to first five people". Otherwise you cannot create an enforceable contract by simply "accepting" the offer.

You ever look at the classifieds in Sigforum and see someone say "seconds if the deal falls through" or something like that? Why doesn't the second person simply say "I'll take it" also? And then the seller would be obligated to provide another one at that price. Besides being an asshole thing to do, the answer is that the advertisement was not a valid offer to sell that gun at that price. Same is true for used cars, boats, tool boxes, etc.

Businesses are generally obligated to have a 'reasonable' inventory on hand when they advertise a sale on something. That's where the consumer protection laws come in.

If Best Buy advertises a Black Friday deal and is very specific about "Doorbuster: TV normally $500 for $99, first five customers", that is very specific, and they need to have five to sell at that price.

If Best Buy has 24 TVs of a certain model in stock and advertises it for $99, and run out, a customer would not prevail if he says "I'll take it". He's out of luck. They are out of stock.