Did anybody at the FBI ever hear of the Hatch Act? Before I retired as the manager of a Social Security Office, I was required to have an annual staff meeting (plus another at the start of every election season) reminding them of the law under the Hatch Act. Federal employees can have any political opinions they want and vote any way they want. However, they are prohibited by law (among other things) from using their Federal e-mail accounts to express any political opinions, disparage any candidates, send political cartoons or jokes, or otherwise be involved in politics in any way on their Government e-mail accounts. Their e-mail accounts are for government business, not politics. There are no privacy rights whatsoever for Federal employees government e-mail accounts. The accounts are subject to review at any time and for any reason. The accounts belong to the government, not the employees. The OGC investigates violations and the penalties are severe, often termination. I was given examples of actual Hatch Act violation cases that resulted in termination at various federal agencies that I had to cover with the staff. Following the news, it appears that more than a few of the FBI agents involved in the news recently were routinely expressing all kinds of political opinions on their government e-mail accounts. So questions: why the flagrant disregard for the Hatch Act at the FBI? Is or was there the same disregard for the Hatch Act at your agency if you weren't with the FBI? I am really curious.

Never have been a Government employee, and only knowing the Hatch Act exists, I am very interested in hearing these answers.

I am not finding the story, do you have a link please.

quote:

Originally posted by alreadydead:
I am not finding the story, do you have a link please.

It's not a story. Just my knowledge of the Hatch Act. It applies to almost all federal employees in every agency, including the FBI. I know that the Hatch Act is required to be covered in new employee orientation in every federal agency. This is direct from the Hatch Act. (Google it)

•May not engage in political activity – i.e., activity directed at the success or failure of a political party, candidate for partisan political office, or partisan political group – while the employee is on duty, in any federal room or building, while wearing a uniform or official insignia, oruising any federally owned or leased vehicle. For example: May not wear or display partisan political buttons, T-shirts, signs, or other items.
May not make political contributions to a partisan political party, candidate for partisan political office, or partisan political group.
May not post a comment to a blog or a social media site that advocates for or against a partisan political party, candidate for partisan political office, or partisan political group.
May not use any e-mail account or social media to distribute, send or forward content that advocates for or against a partisan political party, candidate for partisan political office, or partisan political group.

You can send political content from your personal e-mail account while at home. But you can't send an e-mails with political content on your government e-mail account at any time.

For employees at Intelligence Community agencies (yes, the FBI is one) and for a few smaller shops (basically every Office of Inspector General) the Hatch Act prohibitions against political activity are even more stringent. Basically, vote, make contributions, have an opinion. That's pretty much it.

In addition to a whole folder of certifications I sign every year (right after "I've read all of the policies" and "I completed the training that reminds me to not compliment my co-worker's exceptionally nice figure") is a Hatch Act acknowledgment and a certification that I'll conduct my duties independently and free from any undue influence or bias.

I have not a smidgin of a doubt that they'd fire me for violating either of the latter, and no doubt that they'd make it stick. But, I'm not FBI.

quote:

Originally posted by DennisM:
For employees at Intelligence Community agencies (yes, the FBI is one) and for a few smaller shops (basically every Office of Inspector General) the Hatch Act prohibitions against political activity are even more stringent. Basically, vote, make contributions, have an opinion. That's pretty much it.

In addition to a whole folder of certifications I sign every year (right after "I've read all of the policies" and "I completed the training that reminds me to not compliment my co-worker's exceptionally nice figure") is a Hatch Act acknowledgment and a certification that I'll conduct my duties independently and free from any undue influence or bias.

I have not a smidgin of a doubt that they'd fire me for violating either of the latter, and no doubt that they'd make it stick. But, I'm not FBI.

Same here. I had to get signatures from all of my employees that they have had the training and understand the requirements of the Hatch Act. (Also lots of other stuff too, like the sexual harassment stuff). I told my employees the OGC has no mercy, and don't expect any if you get caught. I too would be out the door if I violated the Hatch Act. And as you said, they would make it stick.

I am not trying to water down your thread. Really.
But I worked for a western state state LE agency, and this basic thing about politics and so forth was brought to my and other new hire people early on.
So, obviousy the Fed template was handed down to at least one other state and I suspect most if not all others. I dunno for sure.
I will tell you an anecdote about this general subject however.
Once upon a time, there was a fairly high level LE fella in a statewide agency that sent out what he thought was an irresistibly funny and clever joke email. WHich was very much political. It was in Obama's first few months as I remember.
The thing was, on his state email account, he chose to select send all. Send all in those applications means it sends the message to everyone, yes, everyone that works for that agency and has bothered to have a work email account.
Oh, it was epic and he lost his job, but the lesson for me was to be vewhy, vewhy carefuwl. As they say.

Retired federal employee (2 yrs). Hatch Act was required training with management encouraged to add their own emphasis at local levels and keep good records.

The Hatch Act does not apply if you are part of the swamp. The Liberal creatures protect their own.

The IRS, FBI, CIA, DOJ, and Federal Judges were stacked against us for 8 years along with many appointments to General in the military.

It will be a long uphill fight for justice to be applied equally to all.

I can say as a TFO assigned to a federal LE agency we had to go over the Hatch Act and read about and abide by it. Every once in a while you would get an email as a reminder. Usually around election time.... weird....

Decisions to enforce the laws or not are inexorably entwined with politics—or social considerations, if we prefer—at all levels. When I had the audacity some time ago to point out that the local police were hired and paid to enforce the law consistently, there was an immediate pushback from numerous members that they had “officer discretion” about which laws they would enforce or not. Examples of laws that are not enforced or that are enforced only against certain people are as common as sunny days in the Sahara. Other than individual corruption (which I believe has waned to a degree in this country), the reasons usually have to do with someone’s not being willing to incur the political/social cost of doing so.

I suspect the reason the miscreants at the FBI haven’t been hammered for their serial violations of the Hatch Act and other laws is because it’s the FBI. Remember that over half of the electorate didn’t even want Donald Trump to be elected President. Do those people who voted for serial offender BJ’s wife want the FBI hammered? Most of them probably believe that the agents involved in the attempted coup should be praised, not prosecuted.

And of course there are countless on the Right who are ambivalent about what has happened, not least because they don’t really understand what happened and why. There are calls from a tiny minority of people for the FBI to be disbanded and all its employees barred from ever working for the Federal government again, but that’s ridiculous and the vast majority of Americans aren’t going to support such a move.

Those reasons and others are no doubt why actions against the criminals in the FBI haven’t been more forthcoming. Will it happen in the future? Possibly, but I’m certainly not going to bet the house on it, and I learned long ago to fret about the things I can affect.

Whenever I get a pollster calling me I always tell them due to the hatch act, I can't speak with them right now and then hang up.

The Feebs have always ignored policy and sometimes law. They seem to think their shit don’t stink. I actually had a SAC tell me my people need to go in first because we were of “less value.” I have loathed them for years.

I remember JALLEN replied to me in a thread that there never was an Effrem Zimbalist Junior, even in the glory days of the FBI.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
I actually had a SAC tell me my people need to go in first because we were of “less value.” I have loathed them for years.

Tell me you are joking. Please.

I'm sure there are many individual agents who are absolutely first class and a credit to law enforcement. My former next door neighbor was an agent in Philadelphia. However, I am aware that some of the leadership like to chase headlines and prosecution statistics at DOJ US Attorney's Offices, rather than make a difference. A few years ago SSA OIG got involved in a case that became really big and hit the papers. It involved several guys who owned a few unlicensed boarding homes. They were not reporting deaths and cashing the checks. There was Medicare fraud, HUD fraud and abuse of the elderly. SSA OIG went to the FBI and asked for help on the case. There was a lot of money involved, and some of the items were within their jurisdiction. The FBI told SSA OIG that they don't do nickel dime stuff like that. OK. Well, as soon as it hit the papers, the FBI went to the OIG and tried to take over the case. SSA OIG told the FBI to shove it. They got some help from the Secret Service (they can assume jurisdiction of the check issue.) The case was successfully prosecuted. No headlines for the FBI.

As the science fiction editor Joseph Campbell observed about the “Invisible Man” story, it’s not power that corrupts, but immunity. Immunity for its actions is a major reason corruption exists in the FBI today, but it didn’t just start. People got upset when the counterintelligence program (“COINTELPRO”) targeted the likes of MLK Jr., but previously when they were breaking various laws going after the KKK that was perfectly fine.

Starting with J. Edgar the FBI has expended so much energy and resources to build their celebrity persona that they have come to believe their own bullshit.

The PR campaign began at a time when crime seemed to run rampant in the US, a la Dillinger and Bonnie and Clyde, etc. Corruption at all levels of law enforcement was commonplace, which is the genesis of the tenuous relationship between FBI and local LE. The FBI saw an opportunity to build and expand it's resources (budget) in response to sensational crime sprees by creating the image of the untouchable FBI. Looking at media accounts and newsreels of the era the media clearly fell under J. Edgar's spell. It's easy to see why the FBI always goes for the positive headlines-it is all about the funding and Congressional support. You will note that every time a new criminal law is enacted by Congress, the agency responsible for investigating the crime is identified, and it comes with funding for the manpower and associated costs.

With their abundant resources and some brilliant people the FBI has done some amazing work in the advancement of law enforcement. The FBI Labratories, the National Academy, training programs, criminal data bases, counterespionage programs, and other services that local law enforcement just cannot handle. However, at the street level their individual agents for the most part have nowhere near the experience in law enforcement as most municipal street cops.

The FBI's counterintelligence mission during WWII and in the Cold War era further solidified their power base. At the start of WWII Hoover wanted the ENTIRE intelligence mission, foreign and domestic, but FDR wouldn't have it. I think J. Edgar and others toyed with the idea of a national police force. God forbid where we would be today had he got hold of the entire intel mission back then. We are talking American KGB type agency here. Truman also balked at giving the CIA the whole intelligence mission for the same reason. There is a reason we have 17 different intelligence agencies rather than just one-to keep the shadow state from consolidating power. And there is a reason we will never have a national police force in a free country.

I had the privilege to work with many FBI agents in my career. Most are fine patriots and talented law enforcement officers who I would not hesitate to trust my life to. Some are the most pompous, arrogant and clueless assholes I ever came in contact with. But invariably, every FBI agent I came to know on a personal level distrusted, or even held in contempt, the political nature of pogues in headquarters.


I am not in the least bit surprised by the chicanery at the upper levels of the FBI. It is in their DNA going back to J. Edgar Hoover. They will pay a huge price for what Comey and his compadres have done in the Hillary/Trump election era. I think the best thing we could do with the FBI is to move their headquarters to somewhere like rural Idaho and sever the political tentacles of Washington from their investigative operations.

^ ^ ^ ^ Outstanding post.

Yes, HayesGreener, excellent insights you have provided. I like the idea of the FBI moving far from D.C.