quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:
The answer is not "continue driving with your hazards on". If it's that dangerous, you should not be moving.

Agreed. Pull over, turn on the hazards to signal you are there, stopped, and only continue when safe. If the conditions are that bad, turning on the flashers is not going to make it safe to continue.

To be parked on the side of the road in an area of extremely poor visibility is absolute STUPIDITY...How do you guys NOT see that?

To be moving when you can't see in those conditions is even more stupid, because if no one is moving in unsafe conditions, no one is going to hit you.

It's only you moving in those unsafe conditions creating the hazard for others, and your hazards do nothing to improve your own visibility of the environment.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
Disagree strongly. Driving on the 101 freeway, grey and ugly, but only light rain, decent visibility, everything moving normally. All of a sudden along comes a macroburst (okay, I made that word up, but it was like a microburst, but bigger). The water was literally bucketing down, it was like driving through a waterfall. An inDUHvidual in the right hand (of two lanes) stopped, all at once, no hazards. As I was in the left hand lane, I continued on (albeit at a slower pace and with hazards) muttering unkind things about the inDUHvidual’s thought process (or lack of the same). In less than a minute, the heavy rain stopped, visibility went back to normal, and I was able to resume a normal speed. Stopping on a 65 mile per hour freeway without moving over (and probably even after moving over) in low visibility is asking to be flattened from behind.

quote:

without moving over

This is the relevant part, not the stopping itself.

They are hazard lights, if the vehicle was traveling down the road at a speed that could potentially be a hazard to traffic I see no problem with it. There could be a mechanical situation with the vehicle. I used my hazard lights this past two weeks on several occasions when I saw that the traffic was stopped on the freeway ahead of me. Warning those behind me of the hazard ahead.

Here in Branson on the hills of Hwy 65 the big trucks who are slowed down to around 45 in a 65 ascending an hill all put their hazards on.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ozarkwoods,

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:
The answer is not "continue driving with your hazards on". If it's that dangerous, you should not be moving.

Agreed. Pull over, turn on the hazards to signal you are there, stopped, and only continue when safe. If the conditions are that bad, turning on the flashers is not going to make it safe to continue.

To be parked on the side of the road in an area of extremely poor visibility is absolute STUPIDITY...How do you guys NOT see that?

To be moving when you can't see in those conditions is even more stupid, because if no one is moving in unsafe conditions, no one is going to hit you.

It's only you moving in those unsafe conditions creating the hazard for others, and your hazards do nothing to improve your own visibility of the environment.

I didn't say ZERO visibility, I said 'extremely poor visibility'! So you 'really' think EVERYONE is gonna pull over, park and wait it out? Also, how is it that you could possibly conclude that anyone could/would think that having YOUR hazards on would be done to improve YOUR visibility of the environment? Excluding the headlights on you car, ALL other exterior lights on your car are there to improve YOUR visibility to other vehicles! And further, by your logic EVERYONE already pulled over, so how could I be a 'hazard' for anyone? I mean, theoretically, I'm the only one driving at that point, right?

Without question, the VAST Majority of vehicles on the road when conditions change resulting in reduced visibility, are going to continue to drive at a reduced speed, (potentially with their hazards on! ) and that speed will be determined by the individual driver based on the conditions. Your ideal world where everyone pulls over and stops doe NOT exist, so in reality it's better to be moving with traffic than stopped among it!

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

Disagree strongly. Driving on the 101 freeway, grey and ugly, but only light rain, decent visibility, everything moving normally. All of a sudden along comes a macroburst (okay, I made that word up, but it was like a microburst, but bigger). The water was literally bucketing down, it was like driving through a waterfall. An inDUHvidual in the right hand (of two lanes) stopped, all at once, no hazards. As I was in the left hand lane, I continued on (albeit at a slower pace and with hazards) muttering unkind things about the inDUHvidual’s thought process (or lack of the same). In less than a minute, the heavy rain stopped, visibility went back to normal, and I was able to resume a normal speed. Stopping on a 65 mile per hour freeway without moving over (and probably even after moving over) in low visibility is asking to be flattened from behind.

I certainly did not suggest stopping without moving over. That is a strawman in the classic sense of the therm.

^^^Police Cruisers with 'flashing lights' get hit all the time while 'stopped on the shoulder'...Often in conditions with good visibility!

Well pretending like everyone is going to pull over is not the argument either.

Lots of silly in this thread. Lets start with the "it is illegal" crowd. No it isn't.

Bob seems to think someone/anyone has said hazards improve your ability to see. Nope, that is a straw man. Everyone who has said this has clearly meant it improves your visibility to OTHER TRAFFIC. Kind of/exactly like why most states require headlights in the rain. It doesn't do dick to help you see anything, it is all about being more visible to other vehicles.

"Just pull over". This has been explained ad nauseam. (spell check tells me I have been spelling this wrong my entire life ad nauseum, is this another "dilemma/dilemna scenario? lol) If I knew that it was going to happen I would have stopped at the local diner for a cup of joe and slice of pie. It happens nearly without warning. Light rain to buckets in no time.

There is no scenario where everyone will pull over. Many drivers don't even slow down. It is crazy. I think we can all agree that no one is suggesting stopping in the road and turning on your flashers. I am pretty confident the idea is that is visibility drops significantly and suddenly the overall best answer is to slow down and turn on your flashers. If you can safely exit the freeway that is a good next step but usually (imo) the rain squall is usually short lived and goes back to some normal version of rain where visibility hasn't dropped to car lengths and you continue as before sans flashers.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Well pretending like everyone is going to pull over is not the argument either.

Lots of silly in this thread. Lets start with the "it is illegal" crowd. No it isn't.

Bob seems to think someone/anyone has said hazards improve your ability to see. Nope, that is a straw man. Everyone who has said this has clearly meant it improves your visibility to OTHER TRAFFIC. Kind of/exactly like why most states require headlights in the rain. It doesn't do dick to help you see anything, it is all about being more visible to other vehicles.

"Just pull over". This has been explained ad nauseam. (spell check tells me I have been spelling this wrong my entire life ad nauseum, is this another "dilemma/dilemna scenario? lol) If I knew that it was going to happen I would have stopped at the local diner for a cup of joe and slice of pie. It happens nearly without warning. Light rain to buckets in no time.

There is no scenario where everyone will pull over. Many drivers don't even slow down. It is crazy. I think we can all agree that no one is suggesting stopping in the road and turning on your flashers. I am pretty confident the idea is that is visibility drops significantly and suddenly the overall best answer is to slow down and turn on your flashers. If you can safely exit the freeway that is a good next step but usually (imo) the rain squall is usually short lived and goes back to some normal version of rain where visibility hasn't dropped to car lengths and you continue as before sans flashers.

Silly is claiming I said something other than what I said.

I said hazards don't improve your ability to see, so driving with them on doesn't improve your safety if the problem is that you can't see and you're the only one moving.

Silly is also a blanket statement like "it's not illegal" when it is in some states as the link I posted stated.

Silly is doing a stupid thing just because other people will do stupid things too.

If it's bad enough that you need your hazards, it's too much to be moving. If visibility is good enough for you to be moving safely, visibility is good enough for headlights and taillights.

My apologies. I misread your comment about visibility.

Yes my “it’s illegal” comment was a blanket statement since it was affirmed a couple times including by someone who apparently taught LE classes.

I stand by the the silly comment though. If anybody applied even the slightest amount of common sense or even did a practical test you could easily and quickly discover that hazard lughts used in hazardous conditions of extremely low visibility increase everyone’s awareness which is why not only is it mostly legal, it is truly common sense. If I want to be seen and have others see me hazards are exactly what you want turned on. Once again, exactly why the laws requiring headlights in the rain because wait for it class, it improves the ability of other cars to see you.

Arguing more lighting is hazardous in these conditions is not reasonable or common sense. At all.

I obviously won’t change your minds. Some of you will continue at high speed in low vis and do nothing to make the situation safer for anyone else, bitching the whole time about pussies slowing down for rain. That is your prerogative. Doesn’t make it smart.

If you had to hazard (get it?) a guess, why do you think Texas used to make this illegal but changed their minds and made it legal? Serious question. They had to have a reason. Maybe it was a stupid reason, maybe they recognized hazards improved safety. I know what my guess is.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

Disagree strongly. Driving on the 101 freeway, grey and ugly, but only light rain, decent visibility, everything moving normally. All of a sudden along comes a macroburst (okay, I made that word up, but it was like a microburst, but bigger). The water was literally bucketing down, it was like driving through a waterfall. An inDUHvidual in the right hand (of two lanes) stopped, all at once, no hazards. As I was in the left hand lane, I continued on (albeit at a slower pace and with hazards) muttering unkind things about the inDUHvidual’s thought process (or lack of the same). In less than a minute, the heavy rain stopped, visibility went back to normal, and I was able to resume a normal speed. Stopping on a 65 mile per hour freeway without moving over (and probably even after moving over) in low visibility is asking to be flattened from behind.

I certainly did not suggest stopping without moving over. That is a strawman in the classic sense of the therm.

If you read the whole post at the bottom of the last page, you might have noted that I was not responding to (and did not quote) you. Go read the part before and it sure sounds like bobtheelf is trying to say one should stop in the middle of the road.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
If you read the whole post at the bottom of the last page, you might have noted that I was not responding to (and did not quote) you. Go read the part before and it sure sounds like bobtheelf is trying to say one should stop in the middle of the road.

Nonsense. As jhe pointed out, that's a strawman.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
I obviously won’t change your minds. Some of you will continue at high speed in low vis and do nothing to make the situation safer for anyone else, bitching the whole time about pussies slowing down for rain. That is your prerogative. Doesn’t make it smart.

Yes, the person telling you to stop if visibility is too bad to move safely is the one who will be moving at high speed in the rain. What a totally reasonable conclusion.


You're right, you're not going to change my mind with silly reasoning like that.

I'll leave you with Texas DPS's comment on it:

quote:

“Bottom line: we want Texans to be safe, so we afford the driver every opportunity and every means on their vehicle as a safety precaution to make themselves feel safe,” said Woodard.

KHOU 11 can verify that DPS says using your hazard lights while you’re driving is acceptable if you feel like you’re in danger.

"feelings"

Bob,I apologized for misreading your statements. Now I feel bad about that because you are being obtuse and I want my apology back. Lol

Go read the whole thread, I specifically will point out just a couple. Let’s see, the guy who wants to PIT anybody using hazards or the ever popular one that is exactly what I pointed out that you ignored. “If you can’t do the posted speed limit get off the road”. You can’t possibly think of any scenarios where driving slower than the posted speed limit is the intelligent decision? Really?

Hell, one guy wants to drive people off the road who use their hazards. Even though it is clearly legal. Why? Because he says they are a distraction. Well jeez, they are flashing for exactly that reason. They are meant to get your attention because the conditions are hazardous. Low visibility is hazardous. Ask any aviator. Ask any sailor. Low vis requires more care. Hazardous. Not a tough concept to understand. Or I guess it is.

As for that DPS statement, screw that. Just read the actual statute that was posted, incorrectly, to back up the incorrect assertion that Texas said it was illegal. Has nothing to do with feelings Bob. Texas says it’s legal and they didn’t do it for “feelings”. Nobody yet has answered why all these states allow hazard use in low vis if it is as dangerous as some of you think.

You guys just don’t like it for some reason. Oh well, it’s not only legal, it is the smart play. Just because you can’t see it means nothing. Horse to water and all that. Like I said before, don’t turn on your headlights, your hazards, or slow down in low visibility conditions. Odds are you don’t live anywhere near me and your obstinacy on this issue won’t ever impact me or mine. Where I live I can only hope people are a bit smarter.

Argue this, in poor visibility do you really think slowing down, turning on your headlights and/or your hazards, is smart or dumb. Read this thread. Some guys think each of those is wrong. Not misquoting that. Crazy.

Let me quote you bob, “Headlights yes, hazards no. It doesn't help anyone see you better. It makes things worse. Never drive with your hazards on.”

What do you base that on besides your feelings? Certainly not the law. Not Drivers Ed. Not the police. What? You actually wrote that hazards “doesn’t help anyone see you better”. Your exact words. Hazards, flashing lights built into your vehicle, expressly for the purpose of making you more visible, don’t help anyone see you better. Oh, ok.

It's not always legal, as I've already posted a link regarding, and as to whether it's a smart play...well, that's kind of the issue, isn't it? It's not a smart play, because if visibility is too poor for headlights and taillights to be sufficient, then it's too poor to be moving.

As for what I base that on, it's that with hazards on you cannot see brake lights as easily, you cannot always see turn signals, especially on older cars, and a flashing light being the only visible thing is distracting on a road with a bunch of other flashing moving lights. Obviously, a lot of state laws agree, despite what you believe.

That “link” is a Readers Digest article that interviews a driving safety instructor. Never cites a single source document. Even though it was “updated” it still lists Florida as illegal which is incorrect. Not a credible source of anything but opinion.

My biggest issue with your opinion is that it is predicated on the idea that it is a binary choice. Either it’s safe to drive or you should get off the road. The question isn’t black or white though. If you are driving and conditions rapidly deteriorate, there will be a time where even though you want to get off the road potentially, you are still actually driving. It is during those few moments when you are slowing down and trying to safely drive, pull off the side, or exit the freeway that are in question.

Some drivers as this thread amply shows, will not slow down in these conditions or they won’t slow down very much. The speed anyone drives under these conditions is 100% dependent on a dozen factors none of which mean any three drivers will arbitrarily pick the same speed. So you turn on your flashers to let cars behind you know you are slowing and to let them see you a bit sooner. That’s it.

Nobody is getting their mind changed here. I will state the obvious. When I was a kid it wasn’t the law that you had to use headlights in the rain. When I was a kid, hazards were for the side of the road. Times change, sometimes for the better. Headlight use in the rain is a good law. Most states (by my research) allow hazard use while driving under certain conditions. I think that too is a good thing. Many disagree.

The issue is not "temporary until you pull over" and you know that. The issue is a binary choice if you are continuing to drive your course rather than stopping until it's safe to proceed. Cars already have a mechanism to indicate that they are slowing. They're called brake lights. Hazard lights don't indicate that you're slowing.

Maybe it is safe to proceed, just while exercising due caution at a reduced speed...

The funny thing about this is that I made my first post not even mildly considering that it was controversial. It seems like common sense to me. Like turning on your headlights in the rain. If I had to break down the negatives from this thread they are pretty basic. They are distracting. They don’t make a car more visible. Their use indicates basic stupidity of the user. They are illegal. They are only for stopped cars on the side of the road. If you need flashers you shouldn’t be on the road.

Did I miss any? Oh yea, you should be PIT’d or driven off the road as well. Lol, two of my favorites.

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
Maybe it is safe to proceed, just while exercising due caution at a reduced speed...

Yes. With headlights on for visibility, not hazards.