https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-...o-private-gun-sales/

A proposed rule from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) will soon take effect, forcing many private gun sellers to use the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) to sell their guns.

The targets of this rule are not licensed federal gun dealers, as they are already required to use the NICS on every gun sale and/or transfer.

Federal Firearms License (FFL) holders are required to conduct background checks on all gun sales and transfers because of the Brady Act (1993). That act created the NICS, and, since then, all retail sales of both new and used guns have been conducted via the NICS. Democrats have pushed to include private sales in the NICS requirement. However, Congress — even when controlled by Democrats — has refused.

But the recently proposed rule does what Congress has refrained from doing by allowing the ATF to set its sights on private, non-licensed Americans who may sell guns at some time throughout any given year the way Americans have been selling guns to one another since 1791 (the year the Second Amendment was ratified).

Breitbart News reported the ATF’s announcement of the proposed rule on August 31, 2023. The rule redefines what it means to be “engaged in the business of selling guns,” thereby expanding the instances in which an unlicensed seller — i.e., a private citizen — must use the NICS to sell/transfer a gun.

The ATF’s rule changes language so that there is no clear line of demarcation between private gun sales and guns sold by FFL holders. Ambiguity is introduced into the equation, forcing every seller to prove he is not trying to make a profit, lest he be required to ensure the purchaser undergoes the NICS before taking possession of the firearm.

The ATF’s proposed rule states:

"Consistent with the Gun Control Act (“GCA”) and existing regulations, the proposed rule also defines the term “personal collection” to clarify when persons are not “engaged in the business” because they make only occasional sales to enhance a personal collection, or for a hobby, or if the firearms they sell are all or part of a personal collection. This proposed rule further addresses the lawful ways in which former licensees, and responsible persons acting on behalf of such licensees, may liquidate business inventory upon revocation or other termination of their license."

The expansion of point-of-sale background checks allows the government to better ascertain the location of all guns in America by enlarging the paper trail on firearms. Before 1993, there was no retail background check requirement, which means there was no paper trail on traditional firearms sold between 1791 and 1993. Many millions of those firearms are not only still in existence but still in use, and by expanding the NICS to private sales, the ATF is able to begin adding a paper trail on those firearms, thereby bringing them into the system.

The rule awaits publication in the Federal Register and goes into effect 30 days after being published.

Aidan Johnston, Gun Owners of America’s director of federal affairs, spoke to Breitbart News about the proposed rule, saying, “Once again, the Biden Administration is weaponizing every tool in their toolbox to intimidate, harass, and criminalize gun owners with unlawful executive actions. This Backdoor Universal Registration Check rule is nothing more than a move to criminalize the sale of a single gun without a background check. By doing so, the government hopes to ensure that they are fully involved in every firearm transfer, and, eventually, the records of all those transfers will end up in their records database.”

this topic was addressed previously

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...180055305#8180055305

https://dailycallernewsfoundat...e-background-checks/
It'll likely not get a veto proof majority, but it's something.

So non-FFLs will now be allowed to access the NICS without an intermediary? Where do I get my login?

Obviously, this applies to familial and inter-generational transfers, or "temporary" transfers such as letting your buddy try out your pistol on range day. No more giving a gun to a child to signify their coming of age. Will they try to include transfers by inheritance? (Perhaps exempted because they can plumb probate court records for details.)

I know Para hates conspiracy theories, but what if they are not speculation?

Don't blame AI, it's the people who are trying to (mis)use it!

quote:

Obviously, this applies to familial and inter-generational transfers, or "temporary" transfers such as letting your buddy try out your pistol on range day. No more giving a gun to a child to signify their coming of age. Will they try to include transfers by inheritance? (Perhaps exempted because they can plumb probate court records for details.)

How so?

The law was changed to change the definition of "engaged in the business" from sales where the the motivation for the sale was "with the principal objective of livelihood and profit" to "predominantly earn a profit". None of what you listed are even sales, so the motivation for the sale doesn't even come into play.

Clearly this is intended to stop street deals on guns. I can almost hear all of the corner, alley, and back lot gun dealers texting their 'customers' now telling them they'll need their paper work in order before they get dey new gat or pewpew.

Because clearly that is not the problem but Billy Bob selling is old .44 Mag revolver to Jonny Ray is a serious threat to public safety.

As of September of 2023 Connecticut requires all gun sales to be done through an FFL…..not surprising for this State!

I know a lot of States require check for private sales, goes through an existing FFL.

I may not like it, but that seems enough, let the states decide.

One thing I know for darn sure, Brandon didn’t dream this up, now. It’s his minions in the shadow, wet dreaming about what else they can do.

I hope there are enough sane gun owners this election season to see through it.

WI still allows everything FTF, most private sellers want to see a WI driver’s license and often a CC. I heard one retired cop on the radio, he said there were a myriad of charges available to most any with an illegal gun. Often the simple charge of ‘felon with a gun’ is pleaded away.

Fair minded people know what this is about. When our government oppresses the people, it is with a case of plausible deniability. The greater effect is the general removal of liberty. Sure. It’s about private gun sales under a set of conditions……for now. To understand progressivism one has to see and be willing to recognize a pattern forming. They’ve already told us what they want. We should probably believe them.

quote:

Originally posted by sourdough44:

One thing I know for darn sure, Brandon didn’t dream this up, now. It’s his minions in the shadow, wet dreaming about what else they can do.

No he certainly didn't. And it's not even in the shadows. Congress gave the ATF this power essentially in 2022, completely abdicating their authority. Hopefully this is challenged and defeated, and Congress gets its shit together and corrects this.

https://twitter.com/hannahhill.../1778447577765105877

quote:

Originally posted by sourdough44:
One thing I know for darn sure, Brandon didn’t dream this up, now. It’s his minions in the shadow, wet dreaming about what else they can do.

Slo-Joe has no minions. He is a minion.

ATF yesterday put out a 466 page document to define what it means to be "Engaged in the Business" of dealing firearms.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/f...ness-dealer-firearms

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
To understand progressivism one has to see and be willing to recognize a pattern forming. They’ve already told us what they want. We should probably believe them.

When the gun control crowd points to CA, MA, CT, HI, IL, WA, etc as models of gun control legislation they want to implement federally, they've gone way past the hypothetical slippery slope. As you said, they're perfectly clear about what they want.

how would those bastards know I traded my pistol to my neighbor for a rifle?

I've said it before - the ENTIRE ATF needs to be abolished, the leadership needs to be imprisoned in a gulag in the desert for crimes against the country

I'm sure at one point the ATF may have had, possibly, a slim veneer of legitimacy but this has gone too far

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
how would those bastards know I traded my pistol to my neighbor for a rifle?

You'd probably always be in the clear in such a case. But you would not be able to advertise any gun for sale or trade without attracting attention or a sting op to see if you'll complete the sale without an FFL.

I really wonder if this means I can't sell guns on Gunbroker. I've never sold anything on GB where the buyer was in AZ. So shipping out of state always means to an FFL. Is that going to still be ok? I'm not selling a gun for below market value, no matter what I paid for it however many years ago. I'm not in the business of dealing guns, but I'm also not in the business of losing money on a sale of anything when I can avoid it.

quote:

Originally posted by cgode:
As of September of 2023 Connecticut requires all gun sales to be done through an FFL…..not surprising for this State!

NY did it in 2012 and now there's zero crime.

On whom is the burden of proof placed?

I’ve never purchased a firearm thinking I’d sell it later for a profit.

Here’s why I buy them:

1. They serve a particular purpose in filling a perceived need.
Hunting; target shooting; self, family, home defense.

2. They are neat.
This applies to any firearm arm I’ve purchased that I looked at and thought “Wow, that’s really cool, I need one of those.”

3. To give to my kids when they are old enough because #1 and/or #2 above.

I suspect most people here, those that aren’t dealers, buy them for similar reasons.

I can sell any and all of my firearms, be confident that I’m not a dealer and thus not required to have an FFL or run the buyer through a background check.

I agree with everything darthfuster said in his post above though.

Plus, if it takes 466 pages to explain what “engaged in the business” means then the government trying to dazzle us with bullshit.

The government claiming that by renting a table at a gun show to sell or liquidate firearms suddenly changes the nature of a person’s interest in firearms is exactly bullshit. Of course the government won’t arrest someone for that at the gun show, instead they’ll send an assassination team to break the person’s door down at 6:00am and kill them.

And of course, like all of these gun control efforts, there is no empirical data to link the proposed restriction with possibility of actually reducing commission of crime. Typical BS.

Well it's just another tool to cause problems with person to person sales, and if one is caught in the commission of a crime, without proof it was properly bought, charges could be brought, so they could drop them for a plea to a lesser charge to avoid trial...

Of course they want any and all gun sales /transfers to go though a FFL. They don’t want to stop crime, they want a list. Of course however they are not keeping a list when the FFL does their background… and if you believe that I have a bridge In Baltimore to sell you.

What’s hilarious to me is that anyone still thinks the ATF isn’t tracking gun sales and keeping the data. Anyone that does is fooling themselves.

^^^Exactly how/when do you think they're getting the data? Unless the FFL goes out of business, the ATF does NOT have any data w/ SN's, or any other identifying data re: the firearm from the 4473. And the NICS check only identifies whether the Transfer is for a handgun, a long gun, or other, such as a receiver.