Years ago they did an experiment with Dish I think. They had four drivers, and you could see various views or all on the same screen. So you had a camera that just followed the driver, the view in the car, the pit, and then the audio was of the team channel.

This was the most fun I ever had watching nascar. NO commentary, no graphics, just watching my guy in the race and the teams in the pit etc. Even when I go to the track I rarely listen to the radio broadcast but the team channel.

I cant really watch it on TV, it is all blab blab about the chase, and social drama crap. I find it worse than boring, it is distracting and nonsensical.

Go to a race, sit in Turn one. When they come to the green flag and race by it is unlike almost anything on this planet. Seeing a SpaceX heavy lift last year is the only thing I can compare it too.

My guys retired, and I have been sorta rooting for Chase Eliot and William Byron, but I am just to far out on all the rules and stages and the chase nonsense. But I do plan to go to a few select races. The Monster Mile, and Bristol are top of the list.

Anybody watch yesterday's race? I'm trying to figure out if they screwed over Christopher Bell, or if he committed a legit penalty. He finished in second place, but was assessed a penalty for dropping below a white line (less than 10 seconds from the end) and was bumped back to 23rd place.

Bell is my favorite driver, and I was at least happy for a couple hours thinking he came in 2nd, before I read about the penalty (I was out of the house and couldn't watch the end of the race in person).

I know there are penalties, but I don't know if NASCAR assesses the penalties fairly, or selectively, depending on who the driver is.

As an example, there were many people who claim the NFL referees enforce penalties against Tom Brady MUCH more severely than against any other quarterback - I noticed this myself, and I don't know jack about football. I named these penalties "Roughing Tom Brady," in that nearly ANY tackle or opposition to Brady would draw a flag. I've seen players grab Brady, but then immediately let him go (afraid of a penalty), only for Brady to keep running and make a play. It was very blatant and biased.

I know NASCAR is in love with their new poster child Bubba Wallace (the 'racist noose in my garage' guy), but this penalty did not seem to favor Wallace. I've only been watching since the end of last season, so I don't know the history of how they assess penalties, so I can't judge whether this was a legit penalty or not. . .



Oh, and out of 37 cars, TWELVE of them ended up DNF (Did Not Finish). Most of these, from what I say, were caused by blown tires. This time, there were several spin-outs caused by blown tires where one car took out another (the last couple races, most other cars avoided the out of control cars - I think this track was smaller and more congested, so drivers couldn't avoid the spin-outs). They STILL haven't fixed the crappy tire situation.

This new car seems a lot more susceptible to have the air taken off it, and bump drafting is worse.

When I got back into a Corvette some years ago I learned of IMSA and WEC endurance racing. Primarily due to the Corvette Racing Team but there are also Aston Martins, Ferrarris, McClarens, BMWs and Porsches in the mix. Other brands have come and gone through the years I have been watching. These are production based sports cars (given that they are highly modified for safety and performance) that at least look like something you could possibly buy and drive on the street. Not only that but they turn both left and right like a real street car. There are not near as many races through the year but they are generally longer, six, twelve and twenty four hours with out all the NASCAR drama, although I have sometimes wondered about some of the amateur Porsche and BMW drivers that seem to have somewhat intentionally taken other cars out of the races. This is not much tolerated though. Anyway, take a look and you may enjoy it as much as I.

They should drop “Stock Car.”

Those cars have little in common with the millions of grocery-getters, Mom’s Dad’s minivans, or even the second most dangerous manifestation of a male midlife crisis.

If they must keep the acronym, the new name should be

‘Nuther
American
Sport
Corrupted
And
Ruined.

The days of taking a Hudson Hornet off the production line, or a Dodge Daytona have been long gone. Even then the showroom vehicles were highly modified for the day.

If that is the most important detail for qualification of watching a race, there isn't a sanctioned racing event you can go to, maybe the 24 hours of Lemons would fit that criteria, but, you have some modifications there as well and rules, bomber class at the dirt track even has spec's for cars, engines etc.

From F1 to Dirt tracks, everything is controlled from template of vehicle, layout, safety, pit rules etc it's not just NASCAR.

Non
Athletic
Sport
Centered
Around
Rednecks

I enjoy watching a race now and then and think NASCAR has made some much needed improvements.
The patriotism that NASCAR supports, goes a long way with me.

quote:

Originally posted by DoctorSolo:
Well debris on the track is a safety issue, and thanks for the singular allegorical data point, which may illustrate how things were done at one facility god-knows how many years ago.

All racing sanctioning bodies manage competition, as you put it. Some ways are worse than others, but NASCAR has not done it in ways which make it unwatchable, which is what any appearance of favoritism would do. The fast guys still win, and wins are hard-fought.

Today's race was a good time, except for Larson pulling a dick move on Elliot. Should be fun to see the other shoe drop in a week or two.

NASCAR has always used yellows to bunch up the field and prevent whole lap leads. All you have to do is watch to see it. I have, and it confirmed the stories I had read, and my anecdote. Keeping the field bunched up and doing restarts makes the race "exciting" to fans that say "it was a good race lots of passing!"

Sorry but does MLB change the bats and/or balls to keep a team from scoring too many runs and getting to far ahead? Does the NBA change basket heights to keep the score closer? Does the NFL increase the distance needed for a first down? Does the PGA make the player in the lead tee off from further away?

NASCAR is becoming more akin to WWE than much else. An entertainment show with "good" and "bad" personalities to appeal to fan's emotions and identities.

NASCAR is ruining itself. Creating cars that are equal lets the sanctioning authority control the outcome. Penalizing teams for losing wheels which never happened with five lug nuts? Yes, it is all the team’s fault. Ruin their chance of doing anything good for four races. What a stupid rule and penalty.

Let’s see, we’ll let a team owner (Tony Stewart) broadcast color commentary WHILE HIS CARS ARE RACING. Are you serious? Let’s let Denny Hamlin own part of one team while racing for another. Yes, I know DEI did that. It was wrong then. It is wrong now.

Let some “teams” with four cars exist, and compete unfairly against single car teams. Yeah, that’s really smart. They get four cars of data, versus one car’s inputs. Yes, it’s completely fair.

I used to love the sport. Not any more.

NASCAR started going to shit when they came up with their Car of Tomorrow, now in its 4th or 5th generation, I think. It really went south when they came up with this stupid Chase format and its stages. I don't think Jimmy would have all the championships he has in the old points format. We haven't watched a race in at least 5 years and we watched weekly, skipping football to do so.

For all wrong with NASCAR, the series' lack of many big names hurts them most. With known heroes and villains to root for/against, the fans will watch no matter how stupid the rules have become. Establishing this mostly new generation of drivers won't happen over night, or ever if the series continues its slide.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:

quote:

Originally posted by DoctorSolo:
Well debris on the track is a safety issue, and thanks for the singular allegorical data point, which may illustrate how things were done at one facility god-knows how many years ago.

All racing sanctioning bodies manage competition, as you put it. Some ways are worse than others, but NASCAR has not done it in ways which make it unwatchable, which is what any appearance of favoritism would do. The fast guys still win, and wins are hard-fought.

Today's race was a good time, except for Larson pulling a dick move on Elliot. Should be fun to see the other shoe drop in a week or two.

NASCAR has always used yellows to bunch up the field and prevent whole lap leads. All you have to do is watch to see it. I have, and it confirmed the stories I had read, and my anecdote. Keeping the field bunched up and doing restarts makes the race "exciting" to fans that say "it was a good race lots of passing!"

Sorry but does MLB change the bats and/or balls to keep a team from scoring too many runs and getting to far ahead? Does the NBA change basket heights to keep the score closer? Does the NFL increase the distance needed for a first down? Does the PGA make the player in the lead tee off from further away?

NASCAR is becoming more akin to WWE than much else. An entertainment show with "good" and "bad" personalities to appeal to fan's emotions and identities.

Took me a while to circle back and address your "argument", but here I go.

You can't predict if someone is going to crash when some driver "of interest"(gambling-wise) is in the lead and then bunches up the field. The cars are too closely regulated to allow any driver to be dominant, unlike F1, where the budget wins(except where Murphy's law gives us mercy).

If you think crashes are orchestrated, you have never raced a car. There are no patsies or fall-guys. Everyone is driving to keep their seat and if you think this is all akin to swapping balls(or bats or sticks or titties) between plays, you are out of your mind.

NASCAR isn't for you, or anyone that desires a sport to be predictable.

Hey Lefty, tell you what, when I see competitive crocheting on espn, Ill fire up a thread about how the needles are out-of-spec and why the 98 year-old was sand-bagging because of arthritis. It will be another good old time eh?

I grew up watching NASCAR on Wide World of Sports in the 60's and 70s. If there weren't crashes we turned the channel to see a Western.

NASCAR without crashes is like a hot date and a kiss at the front door. What they have done with the newer NOT Stock cars is get cheaper rebuilds to put them back on the track faster.

It's not a defect, it's a feature.

I never said crashes were orchestrated. I only stated the well known practice of NASCAR using yellow flags for "debris on the track" to keep the race bunched up and prevent significant leads, allowing dramatic "restarts" after the yellow. They don't call the yellow the instant the debris is spotted, they wait until they "need" it.

My examples were intended to illustrate that NASCAR takes active measures during a race to keep the race close and dramatic. It is "managed competition".

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Lefty Sig,

It would be nice if they were allowed to just race.

Best car, best driver, best pit crew.

You’re driving along doing really well and for some odd reason at lap 25 they throw a caution flag for no legitimate purpose other than to state manage the event. And not only do it once, they do it twice.

NASCAR isn’t racing, it’s a 4-wheeled ballet.

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
It would be nice if they were allowed to just race.

Best car, best driver, best pit crew.

You’re driving along doing really well and for some odd reason at lap 25 they throw a caution flag for no legitimate purpose other than to state manage the event. And not only do it once, they do it twice.

NASCAR isn’t racing, it’s a 4-wheeled ballet.

Respectfully, and I'm going to keep beating this drum, there are no "odd reasons" for caution flags. Guys get into the wall and shit happens, and the organizers are truly in damage control mode at that point. As the race goes on, the stakes get higher and the guys take more risks. What you are saying is completely fallacious.

Here's a shocker: The fastest guys still win, and you have no chance unless your pit crew is spot on.

You "race fans", tell me what I should be watching then, if this sport sucks so hard. I think it's a hell of a lot more interesting than F1, and keep in mind, I used to shit all over NASCAR when I was younger(all I really cared about was WRC), and that was probably the "good old days" to you guys.

^^ And people I know that work the Indy Speedway during the Brickyard TELL me how the "debris" yellows are managed. Are they lying? Is it only at the Indy Speedway?

Regardless, there are other options:

Endurance races at Daytona, Sebring, and Le Mans.

My hometown Indy 500.

NHRA Nationals at Raceway Park.

Any decent dirt track sprint car race.

Moto GP.

quote:

Originally posted by DoctorSolo:
Respectfully, and I'm going to keep beating this drum, there are no "odd reasons" for caution flags.

Explain the “Competiton Caution” that happens after the first 20 laps and why there’s a pitstop after the end of every bullshit stage?

Just more "Lets Keep it Real" crap they have dreamed up to bunch the field and give free passes so everyone has a chance at the end. Kinda like the free trophy shit.

Think this week was the first in awhile they had no comp caution.

Throwing a caution at the end off every stage is as stupid as having the stage points crap. Just more crap car racing.