No way.

“A federal judge from Utah has ruled that American Samoans are U.S. citizens by birth and should be issued new passports.

The announcement Thursday came from U.S. District Judge Clark Waddoups' 69-page decision that favored plaintiffs John Fitisemanu, Pale Tuli and Rosavita Tuli after they filed a lawsuit in 2018.

They argued that as American Samoans, they deserved all rights afforded to U.S. citizens under the 14th amendment.
……
Waddoups barred the federal government from administering rules that say constitutional citizenship does not apply to people born in American Samoa…”

https://mol.im/a/7788089

Bull Shit they are! The Trump Administration will certainly appeal that ruling!

Why is a judge in Utah ruling about citizenship of territorial peoples in Samoa? Where is the standing? If the people’s of Samoa want to be citizens, shouldn’t they bring it tot the attention of the Congress, who make laws and can ammend our Constitution to reflect territories population being citizens.

So. I don't know much about US territories, but..... Why aren't they states, why are the people not citizens, and why shouldn't they be?

Out of curiosity?

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
Why is a judge in Utah ruling about citizenship of territorial peoples in Samoa? Where is the standing?<snip>

From the linked article:

“As of now, the new ruling only applies to American Samoans present in Utah and does not reflect in other states.”

I was shocked to learn they are not U.S. citizens-the other territories like Guam, Marianas, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands have US citizenship by birth. I worked with some great people from all those territories at one time or another. I don't understand why the law has not been changed to include Samoa

This should prove interesting...

It would seem there is a pretty well defined procedure for the inhabitants of a territory gaining citizenship. I'm not sure why this judge thinks he has any standing in changing that policy...

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:
I was shocked to learn they are not U.S. citizens-the other territories like Guam, Marianas, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands have US citizenship by birth. I worked with some great people from all those territories at one time or another. I don't understand why the law has not been changed to include Samoa

From what little reading I've done so far I think each of those territories were granted citizenship rights by individual law. It may just be the case that there hasn't been a concerted effort by the American Samoan citizens.

That, to me, still doesn't justify the actions of this judge.

quote:

Originally posted by mark_a:

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:
I was shocked to learn they are not U.S. citizens-the other territories like Guam, Marianas, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands have US citizenship by birth. I worked with some great people from all those territories at one time or another. I don't understand why the law has not been changed to include Samoa

From what little reading I've done so far I think each of those territories were granted citizenship rights by individual law. It may just be the case that there hasn't been a concerted effort by the American Samoan citizens.

That, to me, still doesn't justify the actions of this judge.

I don’t have a dog in the fight either way, but if all of the other territories have had individual laws passed giving their residents citizenship at birth and American Samoa has not, then that would seem to be the law of the land and the way things are. Sure, it is wrong, and our legislators should fix it, either for the moment by creating a law for American Samoa that does the same for its citizens the others, or more permanently by making a laws that does the same for all territories current or future. The issue with such a “permanent solution” law is that sometimes there are unforeseen consequences and thus a law doing the same thing for American Samoans only might be the best.

Personally, I’d rather see our judges recognize the law as it is and pressure put on our legislators to get their thumb out of playing politics and actual do their job of legislating.

The law regarding passports is pretty clear. In contrast it is confusing especially around the concept of citizenship. The confusion seams primarily due to the misapplication of the 14th Amendment which was intended to grant citizenship to freed slaves. Government always wishes to expand its authority and power over the people.

22 USC 212: "No passport shall be granted or issued to or verified for any other persons than those owing allegiance, whether citizens or not, to the United States."

Persons entitled passport

You don't have to be a citizen to get a passport, you just have to owe allegiance.

8 USC 1401

"The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

(a)a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

(b)a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;

(c)a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;

(d)a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;

(e)a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;

(f)a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;

(g)a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and

(h)a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.

Citizens and Nationals

So it all seems to turn on the definitions of "United States".

22 CFR 50.1 Definitions

The following definitions shall be applicable to this part:

(a) United States means the continental United States, the State of Hawaii, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands of the United States, the Canal Zone, American Samoa, Guam and any other islands or territory over which the United States exercises jurisdiction.

(b) Department means the Department of State of the United States of America.

(c) Secretary means the Secretary of State.

(d) National means a citizen of the United States or a noncitizen owing permanent allegiance to the United States.

Definitions

Note that the definition of "United States" includes American Samoa so I would not be surprised if the ruling is upheld. Lawyers, especially those working in or for the legislature can be very good in their word-smithing and use of definitions.

__________________________________________________

Puerto Ricans have always been considered US citizens. When we had the draft, citizens of Puerto Rico were drafted right along with US citizens on the mainland. Puerto Ricans traveling outside the US always carried US passports. Don't know why American Samoans should be any different.

quote:

Originally posted by Fed161:
Puerto Ricans have always been considered US citizens. When we had the draft, citizens of Puerto Rico were drafted right along with US citizens on the mainland. Puerto Ricans traveling outside the US always carried US passports. Don't know why American Samoans should be any different.

It sounds like it's because there was no law passed granting citizenship where as our other territories have a law passed. Sounds like something for Congress not courts to me, but what do I know.

There's a lot of Polynesians in Utah.

Samoans gave me the nick name; "Matai"

seems reasonable ...... if you claim the territory then the inhabitants should inherit the claimants rights.

There's definitely a 14th Amendment issue here, since American Samoa is part of the US.

quote:

Originally posted by Kraquin:
seems reasonable ...... if you claim the territory then the inhabitants should inherit the claimants rights.

quote:

Originally posted by Fed161:
Puerto Ricans have always been considered US citizens. When we had the draft, citizens of Puerto Rico were drafted right along with US citizens on the mainland. Puerto Ricans traveling outside the US always carried US passports. Don't know why American Samoans should be any different.

^^^^^^^^^^^
This is not true:

In 1917, the U.S. Congress passed the Jones–Shafroth Act, which grants U.S. citizenship to anyone born on the island. As U.S. citizens, Puerto Ricans can freely travel and move to the U.S. mainland without a passport or a visa.

The Judge can THINK he wants American Samoans citizenship all day long. He is supposed to correctly rule that he has no jurisdiction...

From the linked story in the OP:

quote:

Amata Catherine Coleman Radewagen, the American Samoa delegate to the U.S. House and the American Samoan government,' argued against citizenship.

She, as well as other intervenors, said: 'imposition of citizenship by judicial fiat would fail to recognize American Samoa’s sovereignty and the importance of the fa’a Samoa' - or 'the Samoan way of life.'

They contended that: 'imposition of citizenship over American Samoan’s objections violates fundamental principles of self-determination.'

Maybe the people of American Samoa don't want to be US Citizens. If they do, the should elect different leaders and/or petition Congress for such....

Saomoans....

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
Why is a judge in Utah ruling about citizenship of territorial peoples in Samoa? Where is the standing? If the people’s of Samoa want to be citizens, shouldn’t they bring it tot the attention of the Congress, who make laws and can ammend our Constitution to reflect territories population being citizens.

It's a ruling on Samoans, not Samoa. - Lots of Samoans are Mormons, and many Mormon Samoans live in or around Salt Lake City. FWIW, the same is true of many Hawaiians.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo
It's a ruling on Samoans, not Samoa. - Lots of Samoans are Mormons, and many Mormon Samoans live in or around Salt Lake City. FWIW, the same is true of many Hawaiians.

So the judge is saying that Samoan in Utah are citizens...even though they are actually Samoan’s who’s own representatives say that they want to remain separate of the citizenship of the USA, because they are quote:

“Amata Catherine Coleman Radewagen, the American Samoa delegate to the U.S. House and the American Samoan government,' argued against citizenship.

She, as well as other intervenors, said: 'imposition of citizenship by judicial fiat would fail to recognize American Samoa’s sovereignty and the importance of the fa’a Samoa' - or 'the Samoan way of life.'

They contended that: 'imposition of citizenship over American Samoan’s objections violates fundamental principles of self-determination.'”


Seems like the judge is legislating from the bench...and he’s wrong.