Father and Son, Shoot and Kill Neighbor Over Trash Dispute

September 23, 2018, 01:55 PM

Oat_Action_Man

Although it's too bad all of these bottom feeders didn't end up taking the Darwin Challenge, I just can't fathom how the deceased--when he saw there were two guys with guns, including a long gun--didn't unass the area most ricky tick.

I mean, what sort of fuckwit are you that you persist when you're clearly underarmed for the confrontation?

Rhetorical question, since it's pretty clear what sort of fuckwit he is: a dead one.

September 23, 2018, 02:05 PM

Rightwire

quote:
Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:
Although it's too bad all of these bottom feeders didn't end up taking the Darwin Challenge, I just can't fathom how the deceased--when he saw there were two guys with guns, including a long gun--didn't unass the area most ricky tick.

I mean, what sort of fuckwit are you that you persist when you're clearly underarmed for the confrontation?

Rhetorical question, since it's pretty clear what sort of fuckwit he is: a dead one.

So the moral is: Don't come to a gunfight unarmed with a bad attitude?

September 23, 2018, 02:06 PM

Oat_Action_Man

Sounds like a pretty reasonable way to go through life....

September 23, 2018, 02:08 PM

darthfuster

quote:
Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:
Although it's too bad all of these bottom feeders didn't end up taking the Darwin Challenge, I just can't fathom how the deceased--when he saw there were two guys with guns, including a long gun--didn't unass the area most ricky tick.

I mean, what sort of fuckwit are you that you persist when you're clearly underarmed for the confrontation?

Rhetorical question, since it's pretty clear what sort of fuckwit he is: a dead one.

I think he thought they wouldn't fire. Such is the gamble we create by expecting the best armed to walk away from the nuisance that confronts him. Had we conditioned our society to expect what comes to the fight, Ed would prolly be bothering someone else today.

September 23, 2018, 02:12 PM

heavyd

quote:
Originally posted by Rightwire:
quote:
Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:
Although it's too bad all of these bottom feeders didn't end up taking the Darwin Challenge, I just can't fathom how the deceased--when he saw there were two guys with guns, including a long gun--didn't unass the area most ricky tick.

I mean, what sort of fuckwit are you that you persist when you're clearly underarmed for the confrontation?

Rhetorical question, since it's pretty clear what sort of fuckwit he is: a dead one.

So the moral is: Don't come to a gunfight unarmed with a bad attitude?

Not quite. Don’t come to a gun fight with a bat attitude.

September 23, 2018, 02:57 PM

46and2

Unless you're a billionaire with a cave and a utility belt.

September 23, 2018, 03:08 PM

Jelly

quote:
I think he thought they wouldn't fire.

That's the problem with being an asshole.. there's always a bigger asshole out there.

September 23, 2018, 03:40 PM

sigfreund

Aside from the legality or even morality of the matter, didn’t someone just very recently post something to the effect of, “Kill one, educate thousands”? Large, psychopathic bullies who are accustomed to getting their way, or at least not being beaten down themselves, start believing they are invincible. Word gets around that maybe the little fat guy with a gun won’t back down, and perhaps society becomes a little more polite as a result.

September 23, 2018, 03:45 PM

RHINOWSO

quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
Aside from the legality or even morality of the matter, didn’t someone just very recently post something to the effect of, “Kill one, educate thousands”? Large, psychopathic bullies who are accustomed to getting their way, or at least not being beaten down themselves, start believing they are invincible. Word gets around that maybe the little fat guy with a gun won’t back down, and perhaps society becomes a little more polite as a result.

Kind of like the hothead who chased the Uber driver down looking for his girlfriend, told him he had a gun and could kill him...

BANG, hothead gets killified by the Uber driver in self defense.

UBER driver shoots, kills jealous boyfriend of woman --- "Leave people alone, they may have a gun and shoot you," said Sheriff Judd. "This is clearly a case of stand your ground.

September 23, 2018, 04:14 PM

Strambo

quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
UBER driver shoots, kills jealous boyfriend of woman --- "Leave people alone, they may have a gun and shoot you," said Sheriff Judd. "This is clearly a case of stand your ground.

Sheriff had me when he holds up a photo of the deceased and starts his story; "Goofball here..."

September 25, 2018, 02:38 AM

Scott in NCal

quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
quote:
Originally posted by trapper189:
Semi-serious question: if handgun guy shot bat guy in the head and bat guy was then dead, what would shotgun boy be charged with in relation to shooting bat guy?

I don't know about Texas law, but we had a slightly similar case several years ago that pertains to your question.

Victim gets into argument with friend. Friend stabs victim, then hands the knife to his nephew and convinces the nephew to stab him as well. Victim is found dead with stab wounds.

Friend and nephew were both arrested. Both confessed to stabbing the victim. Both were charged with the murder. But then the autopsy results came back and revealed that by the time the nephew stabbed the victim, the victim was already dead.

Nephew was allowed to plead to a reduced charge of Abuse of a Corpse.

I can't speak to Texas legal precedent, but this was on Perry Mason a few nites ago. According to Perry, on TV, in the late 1950's early 1960's, in California anyway, so it has to be true, a person has to have the presence and the ability to commit the murder. Perry was cleverly able to prove the victim was dead before his client fired the shot into said victum. It seems you can't be found guilty of murdering a already dead guy, even if that was your intent, even if you think you did. Plus, they drove really cool cars.

September 25, 2018, 06:35 AM

HayesGreener

quote:
Originally posted by Jelly:
quote:
I think he thought they wouldn't fire.

That's the problem with being an asshole.. there's always a bigger asshole out there.

This should not have happened and both sides contributed to the outcome. But, I have seen it a number of times. The asshole goes around bullying people and getting away with it all his life, then one day encounters someone who won't be bullied and gets his ticket cancelled.

This was not their first encounter, and those two rocket surgeons were armed because they were in fear of that ranting nut job. I doubt they will get a murder conviction from a jury once the deceased' history is disclosed. It will be an interesting case to watch.

September 25, 2018, 08:29 AM

jimmy123x

quote:
Originally posted by HayesGreener:
quote:
Originally posted by Jelly:
quote:
I think he thought they wouldn't fire.

That's the problem with being an asshole.. there's always a bigger asshole out there.

This should not have happened and both sides contributed to the outcome. But, I have seen it a number of times. The asshole goes around bullying people and getting away with it all his life, then one day encounters someone who won't be bullied and gets his ticket cancelled.

This was not their first encounter, and those two rocket surgeons were armed because they were in fear of that ranting nut job. I doubt they will get a murder conviction from a jury once the deceased' history is disclosed. It will be an interesting case to watch.

They both seemed to escalate the situation, but being that they're neighbors and both sides were armed. I have a feeling you're right and that there have been many exchanges and episodes in the past before this event took place.

September 25, 2018, 09:07 AM

trapper189

Who provoked who first?

As an example, you let your dog run loose in a suburban residential neighborhood, not rural farm country, and your dog leaves a dump on my lawn. I bag it up, see which house the dog returns to, ring your doorbell, hand you the bag, and ask that this not happen again. Who provoked who first?

Bat guy puts mattress in dumpster where it doesn't belong and prevents others from using the dumpster as it was meant to be used. Shirtless guys give mattress back. Who provoked who? Of course nobody should have wound up dead. The dead guy wasn't shot because of the mattress, he was shot because he took a swing with a bat at the father. Seems like self defense to me. Even if shirtless guys are deemed to have started this, how many hits with a bat do they have to take before they can defend themselves? Throwing a mattress in the owner's yard isn't exactly deadly force.

September 25, 2018, 09:35 AM

Floyd D. Barber

quote:
Originally posted by trapper189:
Who provoked who first?

As an example, you let your dog run loose in a suburban residential neighborhood, not rural farm country, and your dog leaves a dump on my lawn. I bag it up, see which house the dog returns to, ring your doorbell, hand you the bag, and ask that this not happen again. Who provoked who first?

Bat guy puts mattress in dumpster where it doesn't belong and prevents others from using the dumpster as it was meant to be used. Shirtless guys give mattress back. Who provoked who? Of course nobody should have wound up dead. The dead guy wasn't shot because of the mattress, he was shot because he took a swing with a bat at the father. Seems like self defense to me. Even if shirtless guys are deemed to have started this, how many hits with a bat do they have to take before they can defend themselves? Throwing a mattress in the owner's yard isn't exactly deadly force.

The deceased was unarmed when he was killed.

__________________________________________________________________________________
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
Richard M Nixon

It's nice to be important, it's more important to be nice.
Billy Joe Shaver

NRA Life Member

September 25, 2018, 10:07 AM

Yanert98

quote:
Originally posted by Floyd D. Barber:

The deceased was unarmed when he was killed.

Are you poking fun at the whole 'unarmed' theme running thru Black Lives Matter?

Or serious?

OSG had a bat that is fact. You can see it hit the ground in the video after he throws it at the man-boobed Dad.

So much stupid in that confrontation that it boggles the mind... but OSG was not unarmed when he was killified.

September 25, 2018, 11:53 AM

bendable

I see many ,many , many matress' coming too that alley .

Many !, like by the pick up load.

they should name the alley mattress central

September 25, 2018, 11:59 AM

Floyd D. Barber

quote:
Originally posted by Yanert98:
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd D. Barber:

The deceased was unarmed when he was killed.

Are you poking fun at the whole 'unarmed' theme running thru Black Lives Matter?

Or serious?

OSG had a bat that is fact. You can see it hit the ground in the video after he throws it at the man-boobed Dad.

So much stupid in that confrontation that it boggles the mind... but OSG was not unarmed when he was killified.

What was he armed with? The bat wasn't in his hands when the shotgun blast to the head occurred.

September 25, 2018, 12:35 PM

jimb888

The bat was flying to armed man when the armed man simultaneously threw up a hand and shot. The guy who threw the bat, lets call him AD for angry douchbag, had anger control issues and was getting help for it. According to the girlfriend. Unfortunately, the help that put him over the top was more than he wanted, although if I lived on the other side of him, I'd be happy that I didn't have to deal with that kind of thing going forward.

That said, the story notes that this argument had been occurring for some time, both shirtless guys could have and should have backed off and called the police.

September 25, 2018, 12:39 PM

TigerDore

quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by Storm:
Howard apparently had a baseball bat (not obvious in the video) but was otherwise unarmed.

If he had a baseball bat, he was armed with a deadly weapon...

I agree. I would also add that the dad appears to be about 6 feet tall in his mug shot, making the dead guy in the video appear to be 6'8" or taller. He's a monster in size and, armed with a bat, he is a very deadly weapon. If I am being menaced by a man that size with a bat, I am not going to respond with a bat.

Having said that, the entire confrontation over a mattress is insane. Two sets of hotheads collided and now their lives are over or ruined, along with those closest to them. This looks like something that has been brewing for some time, and I am sure both sides are to blame.

.