Warning: Video of man being shot and killed.

I don't have an opinion on this one way or another (justified self-defense or murder/manslaughter). The critical moment is not on video. The (dead) guy was "over the top" angry. Had I been there, I would have felt threatened. That said, I don't think this needed to happen. Both sides should have backed down, and both sides were verbally adding fuel to the fire.

On a slightly different note: Some people are just pieces of s***. The dead guy's Facebook page is still open and everyone is posting their opinion or just disrespectful s*** there. He had a couple kids.

Facebook Page:
https://www.facebook.com/kristopher.robinson2/

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Source: TTAG - Father and Son, Both Armed, Shoot and Kill Neighbor Over Trash Dispute




In this extremely disturbing video out of Abilene, Texas, a heated dispute over the disposal of a mattress leads to gunfire. The shooters, Johnnie and Michael Miller, have both been charged with the first-degree murder of the third man in the video, Aaron Howard. Howard apparently had a baseball bat (not obvious in the video) but was otherwise unarmed.

The person recording the video is Howard’s fiance, Kara Box. Threats were exchanged on both sides before John Miller fired his handgun. His son then followed up with a shotgun blast.

When District Attorney Jim Hicks saw the footage, he said: “Video evidence like this is always graphic and very difficult to watch. But, it is consistent with the charges.”

Both Miller men are currently out of jail on a $25,000 bond.

“You [the Millers] deserve to spend your lives in prison,” said Ms. Box. By the looks of it, there’s a good chance of that.

Trash on both sides. But, to threaten them, who were armed, with "I'm gonna kill you", when you're empty-handed...

Eloquent exchange between the bottom one percent of the gene pool. Hmmmm.

Supposedly this started when the dead guy put a mattress in the dumpster in the alley. The older shooter took the mattress out and put it in the dead guy's backyard.

To give a little context to the above, if I remember correctly Abilene handles their trash like Midland, TX. I used to live in Midland and the neighborhoods were constructed with an alley and detached garages opening to the alley. Additionally, the trash service is provided to all in the city by putting dumpsters in the aforementioned alleys. The dumpsters are common use for people whose properties back up to the alley. One benefit to this system is nobody is going to businesses to illegally dump trash in their dumpsters to avoid paying for trash service and another benefit is everybody has trash service so there is no excuse for dirt asses to store their trash (which attracts rodents which attract rattlesnakes) instead of disposing of it.

In Texas, you cannot initiate a confrontation then claim self-defense when you shoot someone. I think that is the legal principal the prosecutor is using for charging the father and son.

Any info on what started the dick measuring contest?

One trying to dump a mattress in the others trash???

*edited to add**

Thanks for the context tatortodd, it does beg the question though that if it is communal no-cost trash service what did it matter to the shirtless duo? Why were they self-appointed arbiters of mattress disposal?


Not saying it’s right, but seems dead homie shouldn’t have been puffing up making threats to kill folks to impress his videographer girlfriend.

quote:

Howard apparently had a baseball bat (not obvious in the video) but was otherwise unarmed.

I haven’t watched the video, but I can’t get past this sentence.

quote:

Originally posted by Storm:
Howard apparently had a baseball bat (not obvious in the video) but was otherwise unarmed.

If he had a baseball bat, he was armed with a deadly weapon, and depending on how he attempted to use it, it was a deadly threat justifying deadly force to defend against, and especially with his own verbal threats to kill.

I don’t know any of that just based on the video, of course, but I’m always surprised by the people who continue any sort of altercation with someone visibly armed with a gun. I have seen some amazing bravado in situations that could have turned out just like this one.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Trash on both sides. But, to threaten them, who were armed, with "I'm gonna kill you", when you're empty-handed...

The news story linked in the OP says he had a baseball bat which of course is never seen on video (yet). After the dad fires and as the son is racking and aiming the shotgun you can see the dad off to the side ducking away. Now is that because he knows the son is about to fire or is it because the dead guy was coming at him/them with the bat?

Even though I live here (TX) I had to google it and we don't have 1st degree murder, we have capital murder which may be a distinction without a difference but I would expect a Law Enforcement official or DA to use the correct terminology. As stupid as these chuckleheads were I think calling this premeditated is a bit of a stretch especially if there was indeed a bat involved. Maybe they're just throwing the book at them now and expecting a plea or amend the charges later.

Even Ike Clanton was smart enough to know when a man holding a gun was bluffing or not. None too bright that one.

I think some people simply can not conceive that they might get shot.

quote:

Even Ike Clanton was smart enough to know when a man holding a gun was bluffing or not. None too bright that one.

Thanks. That brought a good laugh.

White trash, black trash.

Hard to tell if the father was justified, but the son with the shotgun can just be sent to prison as far as I'm concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
Hard to tell if the father was justified, but the son with the shotgun can just be sent to prison as far as I'm concerned.

Even if the dead guy threw a bat at dad and was charging him?

The father with the pistol stated "you come within three feet of me, I am going to shoot you." If the bat wielder came within 3', swinging or attempting to swing, would that not be self defense on the part of the shooter?

One simply doesn’t put one’s mattress in the dumpster in Abilene. Terrible gaffe.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
Hard to tell if the father was justified, but the son with the shotgun can just be sent to prison as far as I'm concerned.

Even if the dead guy threw a bat at dad and was charging him?

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:
The father with the pistol stated "you come within three feet of me, I am going to shoot you." If the bat wielder came within 3', swinging or attempting to swing, would that not be self defense on the part of the shooter?

As I previously posted, in Texas you cannot initiate a confrontation then claim self-defense. The Dad initiated the confrontation when the Dad took the dead guy's mattress out of the community dumpster and put it in the dead guy's yard.

They don't appear (pure speculation based on their appearance and limited vocabulary) to have the $100k for a real attorney so they'll be betting their freedom on a public defender successfully convincing a jury self-defense and Stand your ground applied in a situation the Dad
initiated.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
Hard to tell if the father was justified, but the son with the shotgun can just be sent to prison as far as I'm concerned.

Even if the dead guy threw a bat at dad and was charging him?

Yes. As I previously posted, in Texas you cannot initiate a confrontation then claim self-defense. They initiated the confrontation when they took the dead guy's mattress out of the community dumpster and put it in the dead guy's yard.

Makes sense, thanks for the clarification - so both would be liable, not just the son as CSM was saying?

have been following this a bit

there's a lot more out there

orange shirt guy (OSG) is a big KNOWN hot-head - lots of run-ins with the law going back years basically a total loose canon

lots of idiocy to go around - but I don't see a real hard effort by the local DA to go after these guys - I think their bail was like $25k

hate to see a human killed over something so trivial but play stupid games...

and the woman was classic - egging her man on 'you WILL NOT shoot my husband !!!' bang bang bang yeah about that....

we had a thread on that about a week ago

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Must be a really poor neighborhood. Those guys can't even afford shirts.