quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
I know most of the history he's talking about, though I had never heard the claim that Hitler had tried to negotiate with Poland before invading them. That was a new one for me. And I don't believe it.

Hitler made a show of negotiating with Poland in the final days leading up to the invasion of Poland and the start of WWII on 9/1/1939. This was in an effort to keep England from coming to the defense of Poland. IIRC, England and Poland had negotiated an agreement in August of 1939 and Hitler's concern was England coming to Poland's defense. His subterfuge of "negotiations" with Poland was combined with overtures to England to sign an agreement with England akin to that of the German-Soviet Pact of August, 1939.

In this pact, Hitler and Stalin secretly planned to carve up Polish territories. Hitler was simply trying to avoid having to deal with England at the time. So, yes, there were negotiations, but they were meaningless. Factually, though, there were negotiations.

For the whole story, read William L. Shirer's incomparable and incredibly detailed The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. It's a heavy read, being over a thousand pages, but you will find nothing else like it. William L. Shirer was there.

Another good one is "What Stalin Knew." It talks about the maneuvering with Poland and also goes into some depth about the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact and more besides.

Regardless of what we think of how a Russian is going to view things (still our own biases at play) the value here is that the man got to speak his piece directly to the American public - our government and media have done everything they can to prevent this. I don't have to agree with him or his reasons, but there's value in getting to hear exactly what he has to say. He's a dangerous man, and surely not one of the good guys, but everything, and I mean everything in the way the war has been portrayed in the narrative has been in the most simplistic terms. Putin is anything but a simpleton.

“William L. Shirer was there.“

Kind of reminded me of that except he didn’t get to interview Hitler like this. He did give a good look from the inside as if he was in the room.
Still an excellent book that reads more quickly than you might expect given the length.

Tucker did an excellent job and it will be interesting to see how it plays in the next few days.
Got to admit that Putin has a good understanding of the subject matter.

quote:

Tucker did an excellent job and it will be interesting to see how it plays in the next few days.
Got to admit that Putin has a good understanding of the subject matter.

I could see at the outset of the interview Tucker was a little aggravated with the history lesson, and then during the middle of it, he was a bit befuddled, and then - by the end - he was amused/entertained.

Putin put on a masterclass in Russian history. It was definitely with a pro-Russo spin, as you would expect from the leader of the nation, (for example, he largely ignored the millions of deaths caused by the collectivization of agriculture) but I couldn't find much to argue with from a factual point of view.

And I don't know nearly enough about weapons development to know if his hypersonic claim was factual or not.

I don't want this to be construed as me saying Putin is an honest broker in this exercise. Only a simpleton would think he allowed this interview without an agenda. However, if I had to defend the Russian actions thus far "based" in fact...Putin's "reasons" are a pretty unassailable foundation.

Look, Putin isn't a "good" guy. He's no special friend of ours, and he isn't some anti-Nazi crusader. He did admit, however subtle, throughout the interview that Russia really is the paper tiger that I and many others here have claimed.

I understand that those who have a personal or emotional connection to Ukraine will see this interview as a betrayal, but the truth is that Russia is going to win this war. Unless the US is willing to put a standing army on the ground there, it is inevitable. We have no more chance of changing that outcome than Russia would have of stopping us if we lost Florida, and then decided to militarily take it back.

Sure Russia could send the Floridians weapons and resources that would prolong the fight, but the outcome would be the same.

I thought it was an interesting interview, and one of the most forthright I have seen. I also think the democrats ranting and screaming about Tucker, along with Zelensky's supporters putting him on the kill list, is the most telling part of the whole thing.

You can watch the full thing on Tucker’s website:
https://tuckercarlson.com/the-...mir-putin-interview/

Or read it here:
Putin-Carlson interview: Full transcript

https://www.2ndsmartestguyinth...7n3&utm_medium=email

I watched the entire interview. I don’t believe the many critics of Tucker Carlson can say his questioning of Putin was anything but genuine journalism. Putin proved difficult to pin down on exactly what triggered the ultimate decision to roll into the Ukraine 2 years ago, but it wasn’t because Carlson didn’t try.

One cannot watch the interview, without contrasting, again and again, Putin’s performance—2 hours with an American journalist, extemporaneously, with this President. Ironic that the adjacent thread is that of the Special Counsel who speculates that Biden should be tried for mishandling classified documents, but would escape conviction because of cognitive decline.

Over 115 million views in about 16 hours, and that's just on Twitter, not counting views on TCN.

Meanwhile, MSNBC got fewer views than an infomercial about an air fryer. Even these stupid sons o' bitches can see the handwriting on the wall.

https://twitter.com/RAZ0RFIST/.../1755855113938419904

Watched a lot yesterday and finishing it up now.

I find it fascinating, about 1:11:00 into it he hits Tucker with > Don't you (USA) have anything better to do (than fund Ukraine)? ... talks of our problems mentioning national debt, migration /border crisis??

Back to the interview but it is clear that he believes he has a right to a portion of Ukraine and it should be Russian and can't say I disagree.

Amazing how someone who is interviewing actually lets the interviewee talk.

Tucker Carlson Processes.... After The Interview with Putin

So far today there is little to no coverage that this happened in the MSM.
Wonder why.
This makes them look like the amateur hacks that they are.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
So far today there is little to no coverage that this happened in the MSM.
Wonder why.
This makes them look like the amateur hacks that they are.

Yep, they don't want to magnify their ineptness.
No way do they want to promote a successful rival either.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Over 115 million views in about 16 hours, and that's just on Twitter, not counting views on TCN.

Add an additional 6.8 from YouTube so far in just 19 hours.

Regarding youtube, I used Google Translate to read many of the Russian comments and they are quite positive. Many of the Russian commenters are grateful for Carlson providing a window onto the Russian perspective; many greetings and well-wishes. They seem like a people long cut off from the West.

It's not possible to review all the comments, now in excess of 160,000 but here are a couple of representative examples of the ones I translated:

Hello people of the planet, I am from Russia. Thank you Tucker for opening the door to the truth. We Russians knew her. And for us V.V. Putin said nothing new. I live in the center of Russia. Siberia. And I know and understand perfectly well what is happening, why, why and for what. I and all Russians see perfectly well how foreign correspondents and politicians convey information about what is happening. Do you know how? No way. From the word - absolutely. You are the first person to lift the veil. I looked through the comments, there are so many countries. It’s impossible to count everything. Everyone was waiting and wanting this interview. Thank you
_________

I'm from Russia. This interview made my day. My God, I couldn’t even imagine that this would ever happen! I love watching you, Tucker, how incredible it was to watch the Leader of my country and you for these two hours! Amazing interview! I'm so glad! Thank you, Tucker! This is incredible, I have so many emotions Putin spoke about really important things, although I knew a lot of this, but Putin’s thoughts told a lot from above. In general, let's live in peace
_________

We are people! And we are all different. Of course, there are many reasons: different mentality, culture, family... But one thing unites us all: we want peace! It is a pity that it is impossible to convey this to the politicians of the countries who are at the helm of each country. But God has his own plans! I am a Belarusian, and I have no limits what happens to my family and friends: Russians and Ukrainians. It's hard for you Americans to understand us. But Vladimir Putin tried to convey the basics to you... The way they perceive it here. Of course, there are so many people, so many opinions, and some agree, some do not share, some are indifferent... But, in general, the information has been conveyed to your audience! Good health to everyone!


You know, this interview has implications beyond the information conveyed in it. It seems like there are lots of people looking for a connection between East and West; at least this is the feeling I get, reading through those comments.

Thanks, chellim, it was interesting getting Carlson’s take on the interview immediately afterwards.

para, I just spent some time reading comments to the interview, literally from all over the world. One especially struck me. “Why Do I Feel Safer After Watching This?” A lot of comments seemed to take that tact, this dialogue may well lead to peace.

Perhaps a Pulitzer Prize for Tucker??? Would Columbia University swallow their pride long enough to consider it??? My 97% optimistic side says perhaps, but that remaining 3%..........

https://twitter.com/KanekoaThe.../1755799466500874514

Vladimir Putin sheds light on Russia's complex relationship with the West following the collapse of the Soviet Union, detailing aspirations for collaboration with Presidents Clinton and Bush, concerns about NATO expansion, a CIA-backed coup in Ukraine, the Minsk Agreements, and the onset of the War in Ukraine in 2014.


Russia's Post-Soviet Optimism

Putin revisited the Soviet Union's dissolution, emphasizing Russia's initial hope for collaboration with the West. He highlighted Russia's voluntary acceptance of the Soviet Union's collapse, expecting the "civilized West" to view it as an invitation for cooperation. Putin recalled Russian President Boris Yeltsin's praised speech in front of the United States Congress, famously saying, "God Bless America," while expressing optimism for acceptance by the West.


Putin's Missile Shield Plan

In 2007, Putin proposed a joint U.S.-Russia-Europe missile defense system to President George W. Bush. While the U.S. claimed to build a missile shield in Eastern Europe to counter threats from Iran, Putin suggested a collaborative approach to avoid threatening Russia's security. Despite initial interest, Putin's proposal was rejected, leading to Russia's development of hypersonic missile systems.

"I suggested working together: Russia, the United States, and Europe. They said it was very interesting. They asked me, "Are you serious?" I said, "Absolutely". I said, "Just imagine if we could settle such a global strategic security challenge together. The world will change. We'll probably have disputes, probably economic and even political ones. But we could drastically change the situation in the world." He says "Yes, and asks, "Are you serious? I said, "Of course". "We need to think about it." I said, "Go ahead, please."

Putin describes how Secretary of Defense Robert M. Gates and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice visited him in Moscow in 2007 to decline his proposal. In response, Putin explained that Russia would be forced to take countermeasures.

"We are now ahead of everyone, the United States and the other countries in terms of the development of hypersonic strike systems. And we are improving them every day. But it wasn't us. We proposed to go the other way, and we were pushed back. Now, about NATO's expansion to the east. Well, we were promised no NATO to the east, not an inch to the east, as we were told. And then what? They said, well, it's not enshrined on paper, so we'll expand. So, there were five waves of expansion. The Baltic states, the whole of Eastern Europe, and so on."


NATO Expansion Concerns

Putin describes Russia's grievances regarding NATO's eastward expansion, emphasizing the breach of promises made during earlier negotiations. He recounted the diplomatic efforts to dissuade NATO from encroaching on Russia's borders, illustrating a growing rift in relations, particularly in the aftermath of NATO bombing Yugoslavia in violation of the United Nations charter.

Putin recalled asking President Bill Clinton about Russia joining NATO. After initially expressing interest, Clinton said it would be impossible after he spoke to his advisors. Putin also mentioned the CIA's involvement in supporting opposition parties in Russia.

"The promise was that NATO would not expand eastward. But it happened five times. There were five waves of expansion. We tolerated all that. We were trying to persuade them. We were saying, please don't... We are a market economy, and there is no Communist Party power. Let's negotiate."

"In 2008, at the summit in Bucharest, they declared that the doors for Ukraine and Georgia to join NATO were open. Germany, France, and other European countries seemed to be against it. But then, as I was told later, President Bush exerted pressure, and they had to agree. It's ridiculous. It's like kindergarten. What kind of people are these? We're ready to talk, but with whom? Where are the guarantees? None. So they started to develop the territory of Ukraine."


CIA's Role in Ukraine

Putin took a deep dive into the Ukrainian crisis, particularly the contentious events surrounding the Orange Revolution in 2004 and Viktor Yanukovych's removal from power during the Maidan Revolution in 2014. He asserts that the United States, with a particular focus on the CIA and State Department, played a significant role in the 2014 Ukrainian crisis, characterizing it as a coup orchestrated with American backing.

Putin explained that Germany, Poland, and France signed an agreement between Yanukovych and the opposition that would guarantee a peaceful resolution through an early election. Putin criticized the decision to resort to violence instead of allowing an early election, asserting that the CIA's actions were a political miscalculation.

"He had no chance of winning, frankly speaking. Everyone knew that. Then, why the coup? Why the victims? Why threaten Crimea? Why launch an operation in Donbas? This I do not understand. That is exactly what the miscalculation is. CIA did its job to complete the coup. I think one of the deputy secretaries of state said that they cost a large sum of money. Almost 5 billion. But the political mistake was colossal. Why would they have to do that? All this could have been done legally, without victims, without military action, and without the loss of Crimea. We would have never considered even lifting the finger if it hadn't been for the bloody developments on Maidan."

"The armed opposition committed a coup in Kiev. With the back of the CIA, of course. They have always been our opponents. A job is a job. Technically, they did everything right. They achieved their goal of changing the government. However, from a political standpoint, it was a colossal mistake. Surely, it was political leadership's miscalculation. They should have seen what it would evolve into."


War in Donbas 2014

Putin discusses the events leading to the 2014 War in Ukraine, attributing it to NATO's open doors for Ukraine in 2008, the subsequent coup, and the persecution of those opposing it.

"In 2008, the doors of NATO were opened for Ukraine. In 2014, there was a coup. They started persecuting those who did not accept the coup. They created the threat to Crimea, which we had to take under our protection. They launched the war in Donbas in 2014 with the use of aircraft and artillery against civilians. This is when it all started. There's a video of aircraft attacking Donetsk from above."

"They launched a large-scale military operation. All this against the background of the military development of this territory and the opening of NATO's doors. How could we not express concern over what was happening? From our side, this would have been a culpable negligence."

"We addressed the leadership of the United States and European countries to stop these developments immediately and implement the Minsk agreements."


The Minsk Agreements

Putin explained that current tensions result from Ukraine's leadership's refusal to implement the 2014-signed Minsk agreements. He highlighted Ukraine's reluctance to adhere to the agreements, with leaders openly declaring their refusal. Putin also mentioned former German and French leaders admitting to signing the agreements without intending to implement them. Despite the complexity, Putin expressed readiness to implement the agreements, criticizing Ukraine for favoring a military solution and accusing them of starting the war in 2014.

"It was they who started the war in 2014. Our goal is to stop this war. And we did not start this war in 2022. This is an attempt to stop it."

Here is a Ukrainian newspaper response. I listened to all of Putin's interview and never got this out of it.

Genocide of Ukrainians is reasonable, Putin tells Tucker Carlson

ttps://euromaidanpress.com/2024/02/09/genocide-of-ukrainians-is-reasonable-putin-tells-tucker-carlson/

Much of what was covered in the interview was already known to me, but of the entire interview, this quote specifically REALLY stood out!

quote:

"It was they who started the war in 2014. Our goal is to stop this war. And we did not start this war in 2022. This is an attempt to stop it."

I'm not sure if this is a calculus by Vladimir Putin/Russia to frame it this way or not, but I have not heard this stated previously! Of course not much of anything is coming out of Russia currently anyway due the firewall erected buy the US.gov regarding anything Russia, so how would we. I 'understand' why Russia annexed Crimea, not that I necessarily support it, but I absolutely understand it, and I'm certain Russia felt wholly justified in doing so. It would seem they've got no questions on their justification for the current 'special military operation' there either. It certainly seems like talking about/negotiating a peace is a worthwhile endeavor here, and I think we need to take Vladimir Putin at his word(s) here...It would appear that's on the table! Unfortunately those making the decisions continue to focus on prolonging the war. Maybe that can change...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: nhracecraft,

Great after interview! My opinion of Tucker goes up!