First, I just want to say, as usual, this thread is yet another example of both the diverse expertise / experience possessed by SF as well as the willingness to share it. What a blessed place.

Okay, I think I'm leaning toward battery. I'm a little uncomfortable in my lack of knowledge about gas powered tools - maintenance, fuel types, fuel storage, etc. I should learn but at my age, simple is nice. If battery is sufficiently capable for my needs and expected usages, then perhaps that's the way to go for me.

I have Ego batteries but they are 2.5Ah. If I need 5Ah to make the chain saw effective, then I'm probably indifferent to keeping to Ego. In fact, I would then prefer Stihl given USA company, USA made (largely).

To that end, here's what I'm looking at:
1. MSA 220CB chainsaw w/ 16" bar: https://www.stihlusa.com/produ...ttery-saws/msa220cb/
2. AP300S battery (x2): https://www.stihlusa.com/produ...300s/#specifications
3. AL300 charger: https://www.stihlusa.com/produ...s/chargers/alcharge/

Sound okay? Better choices recommended? BTW, any idea what the shelf life of these batteries are? If I'm not using them, can they last almost indefinitely?

Do these things ever go on sale? Stihl annual sale? Holiday sales? When's the best time to buy this stuff?

OK Stihl pricing is sometimes weird. But given your use the new model with the 16" bar probably doesn't contribute much to your capabilities. So big money to get it, I wouldn't, but not a big premium go for it. If I was buying one today that's what I would get. The APS300s batteries seem pretty darn good in my experience. Not sure you question on shelf life? The self discharge rate is very low so if you mean I have a charged battery will it be ok in 12 months, the answer is yes. If you mean how many charge cycles will I get then the answer is probably in the 500 cycles area.
I've never seen Stihl on 'sale' like others, but what you negotiate with your local dealer is the deal.

I used to be a tool snob, but the older I get and the better some of the consumer products are getting the more I've changed.

Be real with yourself. How often are you actually going to use it? Do you have the discipline to keep the carb clean on a gas-powered tool? Unless you are using it daily the consumer grade stuff from Home Depot is more than adequate.

I bought some Ryobi 40V stuff (mower, string trimmer, blower, hedge clipper) over the past few years and recently purchased a their 14" 40V chainsaw ($200 for tool only at Home Depot).

To be quite honest I like it as much or better than my gas-powered saws I've had in the past and found it easier to adjust the blade chain.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

I don't know anybody with a chain saw. I'll need to find videos on how to use them. And what to look for in these chaps things. And why broken / leaning / hung / dead trees are so dangerous and how to handle them.

Lots to learn I guess.

Here is an example of a hung up tree. This is back in my woods. That oak tree came down three years ago and she is still hung up. I was hoping that both would just come down on their own before all this time.

There is no way your average homeowner could safely bring down either of those trees. Just leave them be. You would be amazed though how many people think they could do it. It's scary.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

I have Ego batteries but they are 2.5Ah. If I need 5Ah to make the chain saw effective, then I'm probably indifferent to keeping to Ego. In fact, I would then prefer Stihl given USA company, USA made (largely).

I’ll politely suggest rethinking that. Why buy a whole new set of batteries and chargers for ONE tool? Unless you plan on completely abandoning the EGO system.
Buy the EGO chainsaw kit that comes with the 5.0ah battery. You will now have an extra charger that can be left in a vehicle. The 5.0ah battery will work in your other tools and your 2.5ah battery will work in the saw just with limited cuts.

Also I do not believe any if the Stihl battery powered tools are made in the states.

If you were starting without EGOs I’d likely agree that Stihl is the way to go but being you are already invested in EGO it seems silly to move away from it.
Especially since their product line is far more diverse currently than Stihl’s battery powered line likely ever will be.

As for sales EGO is pretty much always on sale for Father’s Day.

quote:

Originally posted by KevH:
I used to be a tool snob, but the older I get and the better some of the consumer products are getting the more I've changed.

Be real with yourself. How often are you actually going to use it? Do you have the discipline to keep the carb clean on a gas-powered tool? Unless you are using it daily the consumer grade stuff from Home Depot is more than adequate.

I bought some Ryobi 40V stuff (mower, string trimmer, blower, hedge clipper) over the past few years and recently purchased a their 14" 40V chainsaw ($200 for tool only at Home Depot).

To be quite honest I like it as much or better than my gas-powered saws I've had in the past and found it easier to adjust the blade chain.

Fair point. And shopping a little bit, it seems like going with Stihl (saw, battery, charger) is going to cost about $1000 while the same with Ego is about $350; both with 5-6Ah battery.

What I can't assess is durability and safety (safety by design). Made in prc is not confidence inspiring for durability / safety even though it may be effective functionally when everything works.

For emergency user, newbie like me, it may be the more conservative decision to go with Stihl.

quote:

Originally posted by Bassamatic:

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

I don't know anybody with a chain saw. I'll need to find videos on how to use them. And what to look for in these chaps things. And why broken / leaning / hung / dead trees are so dangerous and how to handle them.

Lots to learn I guess.

Here is an example of a hung up tree. This is back in my woods. That oak tree came down three years ago and she is still hung up. I was hoping that both would just come down on their own before all this time.

There is no way your average homeowner could safely bring down either of those trees. Just leave them be. You would be amazed though how many people think they could do it. It's scary.

Thanks - pic is worth a 1000 words.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

I have Ego batteries but they are 2.5Ah. If I need 5Ah to make the chain saw effective, then I'm probably indifferent to keeping to Ego. In fact, I would then prefer Stihl given USA company, USA made (largely).

I’ll politely suggest rethinking that. Why buy a whole new set of batteries and chargers for ONE tool? Unless you plan on completely abandoning the EGO system.
Buy the EGO chainsaw kit that comes with the 5.0ah battery. You will now have an extra charger that can be left in a vehicle. The 5.0ah battery will work in your other tools and your 2.5ah battery will work in the saw just with limited cuts.

Also I do not believe any if the Stihl battery powered tools are made in the states.

If you were starting without EGOs I’d likely agree that Stihl is the way to go but being you are already invested in EGO it seems silly to move away from it.
Especially since their product line is far more diverse currently than Stihl’s battery powered line likely ever will be.

As for sales EGO is pretty much always on sale for Father’s Day.

Thanks. Yes, I'm considering it and shopped a bit. It's a considerable price difference, on the order of $1000 vs $350.

It's a good point in sharing batteries - it is a good consideration. But I would likely leave Ego after my current products die. It's a prc company, not just products made in prc. That's inherently distasteful.

But an important consideration for me is which would be more durable and safe to use, especially for emergencies and an inexperienced, infrequent user.

quote:

Originally posted by Bassamatic:
Here is an example of a hung up tree. ...

There is no way your average homeowner could safely bring down either of those trees.

Yeah... I think I'd leave that one to pros.

I've cleared similar things--nearly identical, in fact, but, much, much smaller.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

I don't know anybody with a chain saw. I'll need to find videos on how to use them. And what to look for in these chaps things. And why broken / leaning / hung / dead trees are so dangerous and how to handle them.

Lots to learn I guess.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In contrast ALL my neighbors have at least one chainsaw. They all have guns. I would spend as much time learning how to safely operate a chainsaw as I would a gun. The trees and the saw can both kill you. More people were hurt after the last big hurricane cutting up trees than the storm itself. Buy a good saw with good safety features.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

Fair point. And shopping a little bit, it seems like going with Stihl (saw, battery, charger) is going to cost about $1000 while the same with Ego is about $350; both with 5-6Ah battery.

What I can't assess is durability and safety (safety by design). Made in prc is not confidence inspiring for durability / safety even though it may be effective functionally when everything works.

For emergency user, newbie like me, it may be the more conservative decision to go with Stihl.

Agree would prefer to buy USA, at the time I bought Stihl wasn't in the E game, and they are just getting moving, CA law is forcing them to invest into electrics, basically since their bread and butter is commercial sales, they either innovate or die in CA.

Can't see though paying over 3 times as much for something I don't use to the extent that a Stihl would normally be used by a commercial yard crew or someone who cuts a lot of trees.

IF you want one for occasional work around your home, trimming tree branches, lopping the top off hedges when cutting them back, or even taking down smaller trees, then the EGO is good, you can run it's battery in your other devices as well so it expands the capacity of your whole EGO tool set.

Either way works, either way will be a valid solution, Stihl, EGO, Ryobi.

quote:

It's a prc company, not just products made in prc. That's inherently distasteful.

Good luck getting away from outdoor power equipment and or parts not made in china. I bought a stihl 029 chainsaw new in 1999 on the carb it says made in china. It has only gotten worse since than. Many of the stihl parts I have gotten in that last 15 years came from china.
Stihl has at least 2 manufacturing plants in China that I know of. More than a few of stihl products have parts that are made in china if they were not made in china altogether.

For your limited use, I would look for a used Stihl 012 or 011 on ebay that can be had for $150. Here is one for $160 but the shipping is high:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36417...tkp%3ABk9SR6rfmbPdYQ

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

quote:

Originally posted by KevH:
I used to be a tool snob, but the older I get and the better some of the consumer products are getting the more I've changed.

Be real with yourself. How often are you actually going to use it? Do you have the discipline to keep the carb clean on a gas-powered tool? Unless you are using it daily the consumer grade stuff from Home Depot is more than adequate.

I bought some Ryobi 40V stuff (mower, string trimmer, blower, hedge clipper) over the past few years and recently purchased a their 14" 40V chainsaw ($200 for tool only at Home Depot).

To be quite honest I like it as much or better than my gas-powered saws I've had in the past and found it easier to adjust the blade chain.

Fair point. And shopping a little bit, it seems like going with Stihl (saw, battery, charger) is going to cost about $1000 while the same with Ego is about $350; both with 5-6Ah battery.

What I can't assess is durability and safety (safety by design). Made in prc is not confidence inspiring for durability / safety even though it may be effective functionally when everything works.

For emergency user, newbie like me, it may be the more conservative decision to go with Stihl.

Amp-hours by itself doesn't tell the whole story.

The actual capacity of the battery to do work is a result of its energy capacity - its watt-hour rating.

For normal power tool batteries, it doesn't really matter, because they're all 18V (Dewalt's "20V" system is really the same voltage as everyone else's 18V tools), so the ratio in watt-hours between two batteries is the same as the ratio in amp-hours.

With bigger tools, that isn't always the case.

In particular, the Stihl saw you were looking at uses 36V batteries, while the Ego system uses 50.4V batteries (that they call 56V batteries using the same type of inflation as DeWalt).

Lithium ion battery packs are all made by wiring together a bunch of individual 3.6V cells.

To get a 36V battery (like Stihl), you wire 10 cells together in series (end-to-end). This adds their voltages together, but the amp-hour capacity of the string of cells is the same as that of the individual cells, because all of the current has to flow through each cell in the string. If you wire 10, 3.6V 5Ah cells together in series, you get a 36V 5Ah battery.

To get a 50.4V battery (like Ego), you do the same thing but with 14 cells.

Some 5Ah batteries are made using 2.5Ah cells and wiring two sets in parallel, which adds their current capacities together and doesn't change the voltage. Other 5Ah batteries are made using physically larger 5Ah cells and using a single set of cells.

If we assume a 5Ah Stihl battery and a 5Ah Ego battery use the same type of cells, the Ego battery will have 40% higher energy capacity (and thus the capacity to do 40% more work) because it literally has 40% more batteries inside it.

The pile of cells inside the Ego battery case will also be 40% larger and 40% heavier than the Stihl battery - again, because it has 40% more of the same cells inside it.

If one battery uses half as many of the physically larger, higher-capacity cells, the power capacity difference will be the same, but the battery using the higher capacity cells will be smaller and lighter than an equivalent battery with twice as many smaller cells.

You also can't take the nameplate power capacity of the battery and equate it directly to how much work happens at the end of the tool. Different batteries have different efficiencies, different tools have different efficiencies, etc. A more efficient tool with more efficient batteries will get more physical work done than a less efficient tool and/or battery given the same energy capacity.

Chainsaws are dangerous (gas or battery), especially with those not knowing how to use them ... and as such, in the situation needed described I recommend have a good forest handsaw (short or long) to have on-hand.

Speaking as someone who has worked the woods ...

I'd go with electric for infrequent, short use. Even with real gas, good synthetic 2stroke oil (are most new saws even 2stroke anymore?) and fuel stabilizer - if that gas isn't kept fresh you'll have issues. A plugged carb is worse than a dead battery unless you keep a spare carb around and know how to replace it.

Modern lithium batteries have a very low self discharge rate - tossing it on the charger a couple times/year would be more than enough to keep it topped off.

Get a couple extra chains - dirt kills them fast (and as a new user you'll hit the dirt a lot if you're cutting downed limbs) and it won't cut until it's sharpened.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
…In fact, I would then prefer Stihl given USA company, USA made (largely).

To that end, here's what I'm looking at:
1. MSA 220CB chainsaw w/ 16" bar: https://www.stihlusa.com/produ...ttery-saws/msa220cb/
2. AP300S battery (x2): https://www.stihlusa.com/produ...300s/#specifications
3. AL300 charger: https://www.stihlusa.com/produ...s/chargers/alcharge/

Sound okay? Better choices recommended? BTW, any idea what the shelf life of these batteries are? If I'm not using them, can they last almost indefinitely?

Do these things ever go on sale? Stihl annual sale? Holiday sales? When's the best time to buy this stuff?

My neighbor has a Stihl dealership and I have looked at this exact configuration. I also asked them about the bigger model (made in Germany IIRC) that is already in Europe and coming to the US. It also has a bigger battery. The question I asked him (nicely) is why should I go Stihl over say Mikita? I can get a 40V Makita with similar battery power for substantially less. You can also get a Ryobi 40V for hundreds of dollars less. They really couldn’t tell me why Stihl was better than Matkita other than it is a Stihl. OK. I have a Stihl combi system and it has been great.

Obviously, Ryobi is not in the same class as Stihl or Mikita but they make good stuff. Anyway, at the end of the day, I would like the Stihl but will probably go with the Mikita as I don’t believe the Stihl is worth the extra cost.

As for sales on Stihl saws/batteries, they were less than committal as well.

I plan on using mine for some minor yard work and then for firewood when we are camping. With such light use, it is hard to pay a premium price for something that will have light use. I’ve kind of decided that while I have a Lexus taste, all I really need is a Corolla maybe a nice Camry.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
Amp-hours by itself doesn't tell the whole story.

The actual capacity of the battery to do work is a result of its energy capacity - its watt-hour rating.

Thanks - good info. That's probably a better way to view it. My non-technical, non-expert impressions based on specs and a few videos were: Stihl: ~13K rpm and 45min of battery life and $300; Ego: ~11K rpm and ~45min battery life and $250.

Basically - my interpretation, perhaps incorrect, is that Stihl does a little more work in the same amount of battery life time but costs a little bit more.

Thanks for the continued comments.

Sounds like less than Stihl is not necessarily bad; as infrequent user, perhaps it doesn't make sense to pay a premium if Ego is effectively similar in function, durability and safety.

I'll put Ego back on the table as a good alternative candidate to the Stihl.

But who knows, may not have needed one to date but once I have one, I'll find reasons to use it. Just like safes - bigger is better

Before I spent $1000 on any electric, I’d get myself a MS261 or (overkill) MS361. A bit over the top for occasional use, but nobody will ever show up with a nicer saw. In any situation, you’ll be tearing through timber with the wrath of God, while all the plebes are still yanking the cord of their Homelites.