Okay, I admit I’m terrible at it—not necessarily worse than the vast majority of other shooters—but terrible anyway. When we can’t do something well and don’t seem to be able to get better, the common tendency is to decide that it’s not important: It’s a sort of sour grapes attitude that says, “Well, if it really mattered, I would improve my skills.”

Shooting while walking quickly toward the target is nevertheless something that seems to get included in many training courses. It was a requirement of a session I attended just recently, and that got me to thinking about it again because, as usual, my performance was terrible: not as bad as almost everyone else’s, but terrible nonetheless. Further, in all the times I’ve been required to do it in training it was just sort of an interlude. We never did it enough to get good, or to even identify what we were doing wrong, just enough to realize we all sucked at it.

But the thinking did accomplish one thing: It made me ask Why? Why would it ever be a good idea to shoot while walking toward someone who needed to be made to stop shooting at us or someone else? At 35 yards with my Aimpoint-sighted rifle and about three seconds to acquire the target I can hit a 6-inch circle almost every time. If walking toward the target while shooting, though, I’m happy if I can keep five shots someplace on the silhouette. What’s more, I’m probably a better shot than the other guy, and therefore closing the distance between us merely decreases the advantage my superior marksmanship gives me.

So why wouldn’t I just stop and shoot?

That was the conclusion I reached some years ago and was why I stopped trying to improve my ability to shoot accurately while walking toward the target or making my students do it: “If you see the target, stop and shoot it.”

Because it’s such a popular drill, though, I can’t shake the suspicion that I’m missing something. Surely all those trainers who have us run through it a time or two wouldn’t have us just waste ammunition for the purpose of destroying our self-images—right?

With all that as the background, what do the members here think, especially trainers and those, such as LEOs, who carry guns and train to shoot for professional reasons? If you train to shoot while walking toward a target, what’s your rationale? Why do you believe it might be an important skill? What circumstances would justify it?

At this point I’ll mention the one reason that actually makes sense to me. If there were a crowd of panicked people running back and forth between the shooter and the target, walking forward past the innocents whom we don’t want to shoot to get a clear shot could be a good idea. Even then, though, while we might want to move forward, we’d still probably want to hold our fire until there was little chance of someone’s darting into our line of fire. Other than in elaborately staged range setups, though, I don’t believe I’ve ever heard of such a situation’s occurring.

What do you think?

(As a final point, please note that I’m not referring to shooting while moving laterally or while retreating and moving to the rear. I’m also not referring to military combat in which we might spray bullets toward the enemy as suppressive fire during a fire and maneuver assault. For this discussion I’m referring to hitting a specific threat target with accurate shots. This is about a law enforcement officer or someone else shooting while walking toward the target. Thank you.)

Well, what if the bad guy is on roller skates and after the first couple of shots he's rolling away but the threat has not been neutralized? I train for that.

For me: Angles, diminishing the risk to innocent bystanders. Closing the distance oftentimes changes the angles to make an unintended "victim" less likely. And closing the distance to the threat can, in itself, increase my likelihood of good solid hits.

Well if you are a San Francisco cop, you will eventually need to cuff the unharmed suspect.....

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
Well if you are a San Francisco cop, you will eventually need to cuff the unharmed suspect.....

Unless your name is Harry!

I look forward to reading more responses in the morning, but to reiterate and stress, my question is about shooting while moving forward. It’s not about moving to a better position and then shooting.

I always thought it came from room-clearing/CQB scenarios, where the shooter has to shoot threats while moving forward to clear a room or building. At least that's what it looked like when I've seen videos of military and LE teams doing training exercises.

Or possibly a way to instill aggressiveness when dealing with a threat.

However, I'm not high-speed/low-drag, so I could be wrong.

The closer you get, the easier it is to hit?

quote:

Originally posted by DennisM:
For me: Angles, diminishing the risk to innocent bystanders. Closing the distance oftentimes changes the angles to make an unintended "victim" less likely. And closing the distance to the threat can, in itself, increase my likelihood of good solid hits.

This, and the threat you are engaging may be in the only direction in which you can exit the area (i.e. worse things behind you like a fire, smoke, sharks-with-lasers-on-their-heads, or more bad guys; or you are moving toward something you really need to get to, like an escape vehicle).

If you are a bad shot, it may also reduce the chances of missing--not the greatest reason, but it's there. Yes, I realize that closing the distance could make it easier for opfor to tag you too.

I see this drill a lot: I think it may just be an element of tactical flexibility (i.e. one element being able to move in any direction while shooting).

Wanna learn how badly you can shoot while moving? Trying going up or down stairs while pressing that trigger.

I've done it on the range just because it was the simplest way to begin to get acquainted (or begin to get reacquainted) with shooting while moving. Stepping forward is more simple than stepping in any other direction. Shooting while moving toward a target doesn't seem to present the same impulse to overthink having to adjust one's aim for one's movement that it sometimes does for me. That can make it kind of a quick, handy way to warm up before shooting while moving in other ways relative to the target. I don't think of it as being anything more than that, though.

Having said that, I have to admit that there is a certain intriguing quality to Doc H.'s question.

At a course last year, they used some moving fire, but left it up to us if we wanted to be in motion and shoot. I chose to stop and shoot.

They pointed out that running and gunning is "sexy," but didn't do much to improve what we were there to do. I'm all for moving to a point in space and shooting, but for me, shooting on the move isn't a priority.

That said, it's not a wasted skill.

I'm high drag, so there are other areas best concentrated upon.

I'll offer a reason why it might be useful, then I'll let you in on why I think it is a useful skill...and likely why you aren't very good at it

If you are moving forward in a building, where no cover is available, and are surprised by a BG popping out, being able to put effective shots on target while continuing to move forward has the advantage of presenting a more difficult target (moving).

If you are trying to reach a doorway and a BG surprises you, would it not be more advantageous to keep moving toward the door?

There was a recent Youtube video of an officer who took a head shot with is shotgun at a hostage taker. He kept moving, both forward and laterally to get a clear shot. If he could only move backwards and laterally, he's be reducing his opportunities by 25%

The reason it is a useful skill is that it teaches several things...if it is taught correctly
1. It is more accurate to shoot when not timing your shots with your footfall.
2. The upper body can move independently of the lower body
3. A perfect, or even stable, sight picture isn't needed to make good hits.

The problem is that many (most?) trainers don't really understand how to correctly shoot while moving...actually they don't understand correct movement; because they've been walking forward all their lives

Without going into a long description, think about it this way. If you can move backwards, evaluate how it differs from how you move forward and replicate that motion...but in reverse

Because sometimes you need to move forward to cover and bullets keep bad people's heads down.

If you can do two things at once reasonably well (shoot and move) then you have had at least a minor exposure to trying to do one of those things well while distracted. On an indoor range with other shooters (as LE train most of the time) FORWARD is the only safe direction to move a group simultaneously.

Sometimes you are already moving forwards and need to shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:
I'll offer a reason why it might be useful, then I'll let you in on why I think it is a useful skill...and likely why you aren't very good at it

If you are moving forward in a building, where no cover is available, and are surprised by a BG popping out, being able to put effective shots on target while continuing to move forward has the advantage of presenting a more difficult target (moving).

If you are trying to reach a doorway and a BG surprises you, would it not be more advantageous to keep moving toward the door?

There was a recent Youtube video of an officer who took a head shot with is shotgun at a hostage taker. He kept moving, both forward and laterally to get a clear shot. If he could only move backwards and laterally, he's be reducing his opportunities by 25%

The reason it is a useful skill is that it teaches several things...if it is taught correctly
1. It is more accurate to shoot when not timing your shots with your footfall.
2. The upper body can move independently of the lower body
3. A perfect, or even stable, sight picture isn't needed to make good hits.

The problem is that many (most?) trainers don't really understand how to correctly shoot while moving...actually they don't understand correct movement; because they've been walking forward all their lives

Without going into a long description, think about it this way. If you can move backwards, evaluate how it differs from how you move forward and replicate that motion...but in reverse

_________________________________________

All spot on advice IMHO. ^^^

I've only seen this in competition but, your target and hit advantage would get larger as you close in. A target (shooter) being engaged by opposition who is skilled and determined, moving forward toward them would certainly have a increased stress level seeing you close the distance on him. Least wise I would think so.

I was taught to move quickly to cover and shoot from there. If your cover is compromised, move quickly to your next position of cover. If no cover, or concealment, is available and you cannot neutralize the threat, quickly retreat.

I played with shooting on the move. I discovered that the speed at which my shots were all staying on target was so slow that I might as well be standing still.

I tested my originally taught method. I would have been more difficult to hit, I got to cover more quickly, and my shots were much more accurate.

Basically, if you're going to move, MOVE. If you're going to shoot, SHOOT.

quote:

Originally posted by 10-7 leo:


Basically, if you're going to move, MOVE. If you're going to shoot, SHOOT.

This is how I see it.

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What did the instructor say? If they are teaching it, I would expect them to be able to explain it.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I look forward to reading more responses in the morning, but to reiterate and stress, my question is about shooting while moving forward. It’s not about moving to a better position and then shooting.

It can very well be about that. The closest position that offers cover could be in front of you, and getting there quickly and safely may require shooting while moving forward. I feel it is necessary to be able to shoot while moving in any direction. Sideways is the most difficult for me.
 

The value is with enough practice one should be able to shoot with an acceptable degree of accuracy while on the move. The top reason for me is moving to cover. Rather than sprinting and letting a stationary threat track/ambush me, returning fire and putting some accurate shots on target or at least close enough to disrupt their accuracy/willingness to expose themselves will increase the likelihood of me making it to cover.