The first thing that came into my mind was US Army Rangers. It seems they are taught/trained that whenever you are backed up into a corner the thing to do is go forward. Either to engage or to ultimately break contact.

Beyond many factors to be considered (sectors, size, et al), such a move/drill entails speed, aggressiveness and commitment. At the least, very few on the other end will maintain their positions on the face of such a determined opponent. And if you can break their mindset, you're halfway home. Of course, take cover when appropriate/available, blah, blah, blah, etc. As Major Rogers preached---don't just stand up.

A US Army Ranger can confirm.

Good discussion thus far, and I’m making notes.

Another question or so for those who have practiced shooting while moving forward toward the target: What distances do you practice that, and what’s your percentage of handgun and rifle?

quote:

Originally posted by henryaz:
The closest position that offers cover could be in front of you, and getting there quickly and safely may require shooting while moving forward. I feel it is necessary to be able to shoot while moving in any direction. Sideways is the most difficult for me. 

In this case, I would make myself as small a target as I could and then shoot.

In a training scenario there were pop out targets and we didn't know where they would be. We were told to shoot until we were sure we had neutralized the threat. One section of the course was walking parallel to a 6 foot tall fence line, with no cover available. One target was at ground level. I dropped to the ground and fired prone. I made myself as small a target as possible.

quote:

Originally posted by henryaz:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I look forward to reading more responses in the morning, but to reiterate and stress, my question is about shooting while moving forward. It’s not about moving to a better position and then shooting.

It can very well be about that. The closest position that offers cover could be in front of you, and getting there quickly and safely may require shooting while moving forward. I feel it is necessary to be able to shoot while moving in any direction. Sideways is the most difficult for me.
 

Luckily I don't shoot at people ever just cardboard. In competitive shooting you always take easy shots you can hit while moving, stop for longer shots or a group of shots.

I could see this being important in some kind of real life scenario. There is one BG in front of you and a second/more further away with cover between. I'd want to be able to hit the close target while getting to cover.

For now, it's just a game to me. How many A's or plate hits can I get and how fast I can do it. I feel all of my playing at matches will lead to more comfort in whatever real situations I find myself in.

Being comfortable, muscle memory, being able to draw/reload without looking, ability to shoot/reload while moving, and not thinking while acting will greatly increase your chances of living.

For me this is like the recent poll on what you grab when you hear a bump in the night. I know the AR is way more effective weapon, but muscle memory, and lack of required thought make a pistol way more effective in *my* hands.

I figure it like this. Do the training as instructed, get comfortable with it. There may be a time when you need that arrow in the quiver, if the situation never seems right to fire on the move, I don't see it as wasted time/ammo. Better to have trained for a situation that never arises then not be comfortable when it does.

Since I'm not in the armed forces or LEO, hopefully I will never find myself in a running gun battle. I put the chances around 000000000000235% chance, but if I need to shoot a mother fucker while moving I got the skills to do it.

I have a couple of thoughts...

1) it is tacticool and we see it on YouTube, so maybe some classes just do it because it’s expected? Like in movies where you hear the sound of a guy cocking the hammer on a Glock before going into action or when threatening a bad guy. It makes no sense, but audiences are conditioned to expect it, so it gets put in anyways?

2) one value in it is to dispel those same silly images we see on YouTube and in movies. Meaning, it can be a good tool to show why we aren’t action movie heroes. Once you try it, you realize how hard it is and why it would be ineffective in a real situation, so you’re better off stopping and shooting. Basically, to learn the conclusion you have come to.

3) if you can master the hard things, the other stuff becomes child play. In sports, my coaches often made everything harder in practice. E.g. in basketball we had to shoot threes from the pro range in practice, in games threes felt more like free throws as a result. Think of swinging a bat with a weight on it in the on-deck circle. If you ever do work hard enough to master such movement, I would suspect static shooting would be all that much easier.

As you say though, it’s typically a short drill and there is no follow up or learning lesson, so I’d venture to guess it’s more the first thought than the second or third.

I wonder if it has anything at all to do with :

There are some people who refuse to shoot while they are being shot at.

so by shooting while moving , one gains an advantage by improving his chances of hitting the target , while ceasing his shooting?

We were taught that moving while shooting at your target is meant to keep YOU from being shot, while still putting rounds on the threat.

But we were also shooting while moving tward the target, backing away from it and moving while crossing the target.

I cant recall the details as those schools were long ago, but we were also taught that most folks who came in 2nd place in a gunfight were those who "anchored on the X" and didnt move while returning fire.

Moving - in any direction, while shooting, is a good skill to have in the toolbox. Regards 18DAI

What is the value of shooting while walking toward the target?

Too little information to make a good value judgement.

Is it daylight, half-light or dark? Inside or outside? Rough terrain or smooth pavement? Is the target concealed or fully protected? Is target shooting back? With rifle or handgun?

I will concede that shooting while walking toward target is tremendously intimidating unless, of course, one runs out of bullets and is close to an armed aggressor....

quote:

Originally posted by CD228:
What did the instructor say? If they are teaching it, I would expect them to be able to explain it.

That's the difference between an instructor and a teacher.

One teaches what they have been taught, the other can explain it

I am going to buck the trend here. I am very proficient moving and firing from the hip whether it is a "recon by fire" or firing at specific objects. By this, I mean that I can dump a mag and keep every round in a silhouette at 30+ yards away. I grew up shooting like this with my Nylon 66. I have continued this with ARs and it is now all muscle memory. This allows me to be aware of my footing, etc. - something you adapt to in jungles - not street fighting, which fortunately was not my war.

Good, accurate, consistent shooting is muscle memory.

There is no way that I am going to move and fire from the shoulder unless I am on a completely smooth, open and flat surface, and in that case, I will be firing prone.

quote:

Originally posted by StayFrosty:
The value is with enough practice one should be able to shoot with an acceptable degree of accuracy while on the move. The top reason for me is moving to cover. Rather than sprinting and letting a stationary threat track/ambush me, returning fire and putting some accurate shots on target or at least close enough to disrupt their accuracy/willingness to expose themselves will increase the likelihood of me making it to cover.

There is a lot to be said for this.

The purpose isn't to leave cover and shoot on the move while advancing toward cover. The lesson being taught is that you don't have to stop, when engaged in the open, to return accurate fire.

The hostile action of the threat is what dictates your actions. When and where you have to engage a threat cannot be accurately predicted in the real world and so you need to be able to shoot on the move in any direction, despite what some folks preach.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Another question or so for those who have practiced shooting while moving forward toward the target: What distances do you practice that, and what’s your percentage of handgun and rifle?

I'm really more a handgun guy, so I'll leave the rifle answers to others.

When shooting in IDPA competition, at a 6" steel plate at 10 yards, I would continue moving while shooting.

If engaging a steel popper I'll always take a 12-15 yard shot while moving and seriously consider stopping if it is closer to 20 yards.

I usually practice at 10-12 yards

The value of shooting while moving forward is evident if you are assaulting a position i.e. the BG is where you want to be. What bendable posted is applicable, if you can keep up a steady rate of fire while moving forward you can keep the BG from returning fire until you take him out. However, distance and the number of rounds you are able to fire are critical factors.

I wouldn’t pretend to have an accurate answer, but what I do know goes back to the 2 jihadist who attacked the ‘Draw Mohamed’ contest in Garland a couple of years back. The veteran officer who took them down reportedly left a trail of .45 casings between his squad car and the BGs. He apparently left the cover of his squad car and advanced on them firing the entire time. I’m guessing that wasn’t by accident.

Think door you have to get through or an escape route.

I haven't been in a shootout and I don't participate in IDPA or any of those type competitions. What I have done ages ago (20+ years) is played a lot of paintball. I was the guy that charged, it was easy to pin someone behind cover and shoot them out as I went by. That said, there was also a lot to be said for having 100+ rounds between reloads and the ability to see the round go through the air. A line from a recent book seems to hold some truth and it went something along the lines of "People can't handle crazy or naked, so when I charged them naked, they assumed I was crazy."

Boiling it down isn't it also like a reverse Tueller drill? Learning both sides of an equation is a good thing.

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Another question or so for those who have practiced shooting while moving forward toward the target: What distances do you practice that, and what’s your percentage of handgun and rifle?

I'm really more a handgun guy, so I'll leave the rifle answers to others.

This is where I fall...handgun guy.
My steel targets are the size of the -0, -1 area of an IDPA target.
(12" x 24" center torso and headbox)
I can hit those pretty quickly moving in any direction up to about 15yds. Past that and I have to slow down. I've never done it with a carbine but now I want to try.

As a cop, you will need to secure your assailant even if he goes down. Take control of his weapon, handcuff and preserve the scene and any evidence.
So you will move toward your BG. Is engaging from cover preferred? Of course! But often you are caught in the open and have no other option. Take the fight to the BG.

Closing the gap