it seems to me that the ATF seems to enjoy executing American citizens without the benefit of a trial

I wonder if this is what they're actually taught, or perhaps the entire team should be brought up on murder charges, along with their supervisors who approved this clusterfuck

they certainly seem out of control

quote:

How in the heck does covering the camera or ripping it down do anything to enhance the safety/success of the operation.

When I'm standing outside a house preparing to make contact with a known armed individual inside, whether we're making entry or not, I'd much rather he not have access to realtime information about where I'm standing and how I'm moving. Bullets go through walls and doors.

Covering the camera is an entirely legitimate officer safety measure.

They needed 10 vehicles on this operation? Is there a one agent per car rule? Seriously, why would they need that many people for this. It looks like everyone at the office just went along for some excitement.

How the ATF survived as an agency after Waco and all the myriad clusterf*cks leading up to it I'll never know.

At the time, I was convinced they should disappear and any of their legitimate functions folded into the FBI.

Today, I can't imagine the FBI being trusted with anything.

Definitely a different time.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
10 vehicles, armed agents, early am raid, ends in death of person they are attempting to arrest.

Sound more like they were going for a major drug/arms dealer than a guy selling a few guns without an FFL at a show.

I'm surprised Malinowski's case isn't getting more publicity. If you care to, you can read a redacted copy of the application for search warrant.

https://www.kark.com/wp-conten...arch-Warrant-003.pdf

There's nothing in the application to suspect that he was an underground arms dealer supplying cartels, mafia, and overseas despots. At worst, it indicated that he was frequently buying & reselling guns for profit, i.e., operating as a gun dealer w/o an FFL.

As tatertodd mentioned, that's at worst what, a 6-month sentence? Here was a guy w/ well-paying, white collar job. The ATF couldn't arrest him on his commute to/from work or when he was out picking up his dry-cleaning? If they really wanted to make an example out of him and put the fear of Federal law into other gun enthusiasts, they should have arrested him at one of the many gun shows where he rented a table.

What, no dogs killed this time?

So I'm surprising myself with what I'm writing here:
Since January 6 2021, intimidation of conservatives and particularly 2A advocates appears to be the de facto policy of Federal law enforcement.

The lack of operating body cameras by the ATF has been mentioned already but I saw a report this morning that the ATF task force was not wearing body cameras in violation of their own 2022 policy to do so.

https://www.foxnews.com/politi...ation-its-own-policy

At some point we crossed a line the consequences of which we are beginning to witness with hearts full of dread and anger. The future will examine us with righteous criticism wondering how we let our civil society become rationalized tyranny. Was there something in the water? Were they simpletons unable to forecast the future based on the past? Unable to associate choices with consequences? How primitive.

It gives me no pleasure to say it. But I’m beginning to think our muslim critics are right about our government. It lies reflexively. It’s deceitful, meddlesome, hypocritical, unaccountable, unfaithful, disloyal, criminal, tyrannical, incorrigible. All satanic characteristics. When did this all happen? No idea. It was progressive. Lucifer was the first progressive rebel.

^^^ In other words, we (our government) have become the enemy we so despise.

^^^^^as is so often when in conflict. I’m okay with ugly war, but not with a government oppressing its people and especially not under the pretense of maintaining liberty.

House Judiciary opens formal inquiry into ATF killing of Arkansas airport executive

https://justthenews.com/govern..._campaign=newsletter

“The circumstances of Mr. Malinowski's death raise questions about whether the ATF followed proper protocol during the execution of this search warrant,” House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jim Jordan wrote ATF Director Steven Dettelbach in a letter demanding answers.

“Department of Justice policy and President Biden's Executive Order 14074 requires ATF agents—including those who conducted the search warrant on March 19, 2024—to wear active body-worn cameras during the execution of a search warrant,” the letter noted. “The Department has since confirmed to the Malinowski family that ATF agents were not wearing body cameras during the raid, a violation of the Department policy.

Jordan also questioned whether ATF agencies “complied with" a Justice Department policy that sharply limited agents’ use of "no knock" entries.

“ATF has not explained why it resorted to a no knock entry of Mr. Malinowski's home when it could have peacefully executed the warrant while he was away from his residence,” Jordan’s letter stated.

More at link

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:
House Judiciary opens formal inquiry into ATF killing of Arkansas airport executive

...and will end up doing nothing but performing political theater.

quote:

Jordan also questioned whether ATF agencies “complied with" a Justice Department policy that sharply limited agents’ use of "no knock" entries.

“ATF has not explained why it resorted to a no knock entry of Mr. Malinowski's home when it could have peacefully executed the warrant while he was away from his residence,” Jordan’s letter stated.

I'm glad they are looking into it.
But Para's probably right... performing politcal theater. It's easy to become jaded when Democrats impeach Trump over a phone call, correctly questioning Biden's Ukraine corruption but Republicans can't ever seem to get results.

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:
“The circumstances of Mr. Malinowski's death raise questions about whether the ATF followed proper protocol during the execution of this search warrant,”

They could have just left the last four words off of that sentence and it would be more accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
I'm glad they are looking into it.
But Para's probably right... performing politcal theater. It's easy to become jaded when Democrats impeach Trump over a phone call, correctly questioning Biden's Ukraine corruption but Republicans can't ever seem to get results.

Yup, dog and pony show. Has Jordan accomplished anything meaningful with all his hearings? Looks tough, sounds tough, but in reality a big wuss.

Per ATF website, their mission:

ATF is a law enforcement agency in the United States’ Department of Justice that protects our communities from violent criminals, criminal organizations, the illegal use and trafficking of firearms, the illegal use and storage of explosives, acts of arson and bombings, acts of terrorism, and the illegal diversion of alcohol and tobacco products. We partner with communities, industries, law enforcement, and public safety agencies to safeguard the public we serve through information sharing, training, research, and use of technology.

Protect against violent criminals you say...I wonder what said search warrant revealed that would determine Mr. Malinowski was one of these violent criminals.

Use of technology, you mean like body cameras?

It's not enough these agents get fired. They need to go to jail.

Lawmakers demand answers from ATF after raid led to death of Little Rock airport director

In the above linked article:

"Standing in front of more than a dozen other lawmakers, state Rep. Matt Duffield, R-Russellville, and state Sen. Mark Johnson, R-Little Rock, demanded transparency and accountability from the bureau, saying that there were many questions that needed to be answered about the incident.

“Did they knock? If they didn’t, why?” Duffield asked. “Did they clearly state who they were before they crashed through his door that morning? If not, why? Were they wearing the required body cameras? If not, why not and where the hell is the footage?”

The ATF was “running roughshod over the civil rights of Arkansas citizens and, some now contend, [getting] away with cold blooded murder,” Duffield said.

Duffield called the revelation that agents weren't wearing body cameras "disheartening" in a text message on Monday and said that ATF "need[s] to be held accountable and the truth needs to see light in this situation."

This case has made the legislator's radar and both the state and federal level. I know it's the Justice Dept, but it's going to be difficult to resolve this quietly with the degree of scrutiny it will receive. That's my hope anyway.

^^^^

law enforcement agency?

thats a laugh

more like organized thugs

if no ATF agents go to jail for murder, I guess they have set the new standard on how they treat us, and it should be reciprocal

So there is a law that the ATF is supposed to have body cams and they did not.

Law enforcement agency flagrantly violating the law that all of us mere civilians are in mortal danger upon an accusation of not following.


If law breaking law officers are gonna try and killify me on suspicion of me breaking the law why can’t I killify them first while they are breaking the law?


Slip Ery Slope



As for the wee-hour raids, sometimes the only “reason” for them is the testosterone driven pack-mentality of “We be the baddest gang in town” tactical teams that believe the “we are outgunned by the bad guys” trope.

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
So there is a law that the ATF is supposed to have body cams and they did not.

Law enforcement agency flagrantly violating the law that all of us mere civilians are in mortal danger upon an accusation of not following.


If law breaking law officers are gonna try and killify me on suspicion of me breaking the law why can’t I killify them first while they are breaking the law?

Policy =/= law

They appear to have violated the ATF's bodycam policy, but I don't see any indication that there is specifically a law requiring bodycams.