I went in November 1990, spent Thanksgiving and Christmas in basic. Not going to deny that it was relatively easy but compared to today……

Have a young man at church who just joined the Army. He is not done with basic training, yet gets to come home for Christmas for like 8 days. He also says that they do not force trainees to run, some of them walk when told to run. The DI’s just add laps to everyone else and do not make the slackers run.

Since when was that allowed? I must be way out of touch, even the AF never allowed that. Our military cannot be in good shape.

Home for Christmas! From basic!

Holy shit! In the nine years that I spent in the Navy I don’t think I was home for one freaking holiday!

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
they do not force trainees to run, some of them walk when told to run. The DI’s just add laps to everyone else

The DI's make everyone else "motivate" the slackers.

My first Christmas in the USAF was in 1974 at K.I. Sawyer AFB. I was ass deep in snow! And I never went home for a holiday my entire hitch.

Huh.

Difficult to believe true, but…

EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE ARMY HOLIDAY BLOCK LEAVE

Each holiday season the Army shuts down basic training and advanced individual training schools. The Army is the only branch of the military that honors the Holiday Block Leave for all recruits who are in basic training. This allows the drill sergeants and instructors to have a break during Christmas and prepare to come back for the New Year ready to train.

Get answers to all your questions about the Army Holiday Block Leave.

quote:

Originally posted by Patriot:
Home for Christmas! From basic!

Holy shit! In the nine years that I spent in the Navy I don’t think I was home for one freaking holiday!

9 years? Some of that was by choice.

When I went to OSUT at Fort Knox for 19D School in the fall of 1992, I got Christmas Exodus/Block leave during that time.

The same thing happened when I went back to basic/AIT in 2010-2011.

This time I was at Fort Bragg for Civil Affairs AIT when it rolled around.

I rarely take Christmas block leave. I have only taken it one time. Otherwise there wasn't much going on and it was essentially 1/2 days so I saved my leave.

Knew one guy who wasn't going anywhere during Christmas block leave and took 14 days so he wouldn't get stuck on duty. At worst he would've gotten duty 2-4 times during those 14 days.

I was due to be released from active duty on Jan 9th 1970 at Ft Bragg. I was given a Christmas early out on Dec 23rd 1969.

Can't say that I remember ever hearing about block leave, my first Christmas in the army I spent on REFOGER in Holland in the woods setting up a processing site for stateside troops. There were 6 of us and I still remember being outside a building we were using to warmup and a Dutch family brought us some oliebollen (sort of a fried donut ball pastry popular around Christmas New Years) still a special memory for me.

Truthfully I can see how the Army and other services could make the Holiday leave work; likely the Drill Staff appreciate the time off as well…plus LOTS of fuck-fuck games for the recruits when they return.

I have to wonder…what percentage don’t return and go AWOL ?

Can’t see if working in Marine Bootcamp. Too much by-the-numbers indoctrination- can’t just pause and reset 2 weeks later.

But to touch back on something in the original post: the Army is very soft today. 16 years in and I have never seen it so soft. Fitness, resiliency, basic soldiering tasks, military bearing and discipline are the lowest I have seen it.

Lots of inexperienced soldiers who overestimate themselves. You have senior NCOs and officers who have never experienced combat. Soldiers have weaponized complaint systems against leadership. Many of my friends who were Iraq and Afghanistan veterans with me have retired. With them retired we lost a lot of institutional knowledge and experience.

The next war will be costly. Private this and sergeant that think their lack of combat experience can be made up for with more Power Points and reading of doctrine and white papers.

Last I checked, the Army had Drill Sergeants, not Drill Instructors. Is it possible your friend got on the wrong bus at MEPS? In my day, if you called a Drill Sergeant a Drill Instructor, you'd get a face full of angry NCO and some interesting corrective training.

Army TRADOC, Training and Doctrine Command generally observes holiday block leave. Frankly, the cadre often need it as they can spend extreme amounts of time with Recruits in the early phases of training, a Drill Sergeant is present 24/7. The strain on the NCOs and their families are very visible if you know where and how to look. There is a high probability of a 100% UA for the recruits when they get back and PT and training will recommence quickly as the IET Formations are on a tight time table to complete training and ship the trainees. It's all about bodies. Because of that alot of recruits that wouldn't pass through the system in years past are making it to units. They have started pre-basic programs for individuals who can't pass the ACFT and the ASVAB. We'll see if they address the problems. Some Basic training Companies only get 1-2 weeks between cycles through out the year.

COVID, 20 years of war and a spastic OPTMEPO with rotations into the CENTCOM AOR, EUCOM AOR, INDO-PACOM and other places we don't talk about are having a significant impact on professionalism, competency and staffing. Plus, the RIF and various other events have had an impact as well. The good leaders and troops are becoming exhausted and fed up with.

IMHO the worst damage to the NCO CORPS came from the automatic promotions and de-emphasis on promotion boards, it cut down on the QA/QC. There are some NCOs in the force that are just collecting a check at an NCO rate and not providing leadership or technical expertise. I've had NCOs that intentionally skip field exercises. You can also see marked differences between combat arms NCOs and Support NCOS (and Soldiers and Officers).

The officer corps has it's own issues. I had a very scary conversation with one of my peers yesterday. We where discussing who should take a company XO slot and the conclusion we came to was that none of the LTs in the Company were viable. The traits of initiative, aggressiveness and understanding Army systems (Maintenance, Personnel, Training and Property) were lacking. Thankfully the new Company CDR is good and can bring them up to par. The most alarming trend I see is that the junior officers want a 9 to 5 low stress job, to pick and chose where they go, what they do and to disregard Army traditions and standards at will. They want to be treated and paid as "adults" but allowed to act like "children". I had one bunch that got annoyed that they had to show up to PT three times a week when they where at a school, all CPTs!

However, it must also be recognized that we have had to lower standards due to the characteristics of the population. The American public has physical fitness issues, medical issues and mental health issues. That's who we recruit from. The Navy even piloted a program that would allow some one with an ASVAB score of 10 in at one point! The minimum score the Navy actually wants is around 31-35. When I joined the Army in 2006, you needed a 34 to be an Infantryman! Historically the Navy and Air Force have attracted the smarter and more desirable candidates and higher standards.

The force needs training time to go back to basics and complete the transition from a COIN ARMY to A LSCO Army. We also need to figure out where the higher quality recruits are and how to get them in. We need to address leadership problems by ejecting the rejects, eliminating the truly toxic and properly developing the good ones! There is some scary things potentially on the horizon, including things that will reduce the amount of Soldiers we need or events that could cause the draft to come back. I'm hoping that Trump's previous term is a reliable indicator of the influence he'll have on the world political environment.

Christmas bloc leave was unheard of when I was as a US Army Drill Sgt (Ssgt E-6) (1971-1973) Ft Sill, Okla, (field artilley)..There is no way I could wear that Drill Sgt hat and Drill Sgt. badge with the current way the military support / training that is going on today. ................ Was suppose to PCS(permanate change of station) to Ft. Greely, Alaska (Delta Junction) with a reporting date of 27 December 1974.. Was authorized to travel by private (personal) vehicle.. Up western side of Canada to Dawson Creek then across along the Alcan (Alaskan) Hwy ...Winter weather w/snow...... I actually arrived mid morning of 24 December 1973 and they were not expecting my arrival till after the 1st of the year Because of what that was known as "Christmas Drop" but the powers to be said no Christmas Drop... Be there or else....So they were not expecting me. ...After arrival I found out that I could have been up to 2 weeks late on arrival and not much would have been said since I was traveling across Canada under severe winter weather conditions and had I been delayed due to road conditions or vehicle mechanical problems late arrivals would have not been a problem. ...... drill sgt.

quote:

Originally posted by RR:

quote:

Originally posted by Patriot:
Home for Christmas! From basic!

Holy shit! In the nine years that I spent in the Navy I don’t think I was home for one freaking holiday!

9 years? Some of that was by choice.

What’s your point?

It’s ALL by choice..even nubs in boot are there by choice…

quote:

Originally posted by CD228:
Last I checked, the Army had Drill Sergeants, not Drill Instructors. Is it possible your friend got on the wrong bus at MEPS? In my day, if you called a Drill Sergeant a Drill Instructor, you'd get a face full of angry NCO and some interesting corrective training.

Army TRADOC, Training and Doctrine Command generally observes holiday block leave. Frankly, the cadre often need it as they can spend extreme amounts of time with Recruits in the early phases of training, a Drill Sergeant is present 24/7. The strain on the NCOs and their families are very visible if you know where and how to look. There is a high probability of a 100% UA for the recruits when they get back and PT and training will recommence quickly as the IET Formations are on a tight time table to complete training and ship the trainees. It's all about bodies. Because of that alot of recruits that wouldn't pass through the system in years past are making it to units. They have started pre-basic programs for individuals who can't pass the ACFT and the ASVAB. We'll see if they address the problems. Some Basic training Companies only get 1-2 weeks between cycles through out the year.

Yep, I walked into that one - my dad was an Army Drill Sergeant in the late 60’s. Thanks for the background, at least it is not all new stuff causing this. I was in a joint service school (EOD) so I got to interact with all the services. I even took the Army PT test while in EOD school and every one of those in the Army who took the test seemed to take it seriously. As a side note, the Army Lt. who administered that PT test is now a General. Anyway, just never pictured the Army getting that soft, especially when images of what my dad told me about when he was a DS were stuck in my head.

I understand the Cadre need time off, but that’s what they sign up for when going into that MOS. My mind does not understand how you can be in the middle of the Army trying to change you from a civilian to a soldier and then just go back to reality in the middle of it by going home for Christmas. Seems like it would be detrimental to training.

Thanks everyone for your input, I have a better idea of what is going on.

I’ve never been in the military. But in 50 some years I’ve been around plenty of people who have. It comes with living in the Washington D.C. area.

The complaints I’ve heard in this thread are the same complaints I’ve heard for the past 50 years. No combat experience? That’s been the norm for our military and not the exception. What do you think the 1990’s were like.

The military being soft? You should talk to officers who served in the 1970’s. Drug use was rampant. Between Vietnam and Reagan the military was despised in this country. It wasn’t until Reagan started the buildup in the 80’s that our country started to take pride in the military again.

Robert Heinlein wrote about this. He said it goes in cycles. I expect we’ll see a change in direction come January 20th.

quote:

Originally posted by Angus the Kid:

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
they do not force trainees to run, some of them walk when told to run. The DI’s just add laps to everyone else

The DI's make everyone else "motivate" the slackers.

I don’t think they allow blanket parties anymore.

I went through Air Force Basic Training in 1965, I was in the old WW II Barracks. Christmas off to go home, are they would have been out of their minds.

I have to admit Sgt. Brewer they gave us Christmas Day off, it was the only day we had off in our Basic Training. I decided to leave the base for the first time, it was right at the end of basic trainiing to go see The Alamo in downtown San Antonio. I took the bus downtown, navigated the city, and being Christmas Day, of course, it was closed and locked. I went back to the base. In the five months I was there that was the only time I left the base.

Despite being in San Antonio a couple of times since I have never had the opportunity to visit the Alamo. Comparing my basic training with my Brothers Marine Corps Training in 1967, I am sure I made the right decision. The Marines did not have "lightweight" training such as I went through.