quote:

Originally posted by BigJoe:
There are a lot of online resources to LEARN THE COST OF THE VEHICLE, before it gets to the dealer. Once you research THAT cost. You simply offer a reasonable amount over the cost. If the dealer accepts, cool. If not WALK.!!!!!!!!

If you are intentionally paying more for the car than the dealer's cost, your are doing it wrong.

Dealers will often sell cars at or below their actual cost in order to achieve a larger sales goal for the month or quarter. They may decide to lose money on your particular vehicle to achieve a sales goal that may net the dealership $50k, $100k, or more.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
Goose5, you seem to be very new at this so I’ll break it down (bought 10+ cars recently):

1. You have to KNOW the car you want. Critical. Make, model, year, what trim or options. Do this however you’d like, drive your friends’ vehicles, test drive, whatever.

2. Once you have #1, do a bit of online research. Literally go to cars.com and figure out what dealers are advertising the vehicles that match your specifications. This is a “ballpark” figure, in other words a sanity check.

3. Email the dealers in whatever is a comfortable driving distance for you (I’ve bought cars in Texas, and live in Florida. Your case may be different). Ask for their best, out the door price including ALL taxes and fees, for your county (especially if it’s an out of state purchase).

4. Buy the car that is cheapest from #3.

This way, you ignore the MSRP, Invoice, and whatever other irrelevant nonsense people can dream up. If this was a gun, would you care what the manufacturer suggested price is, or the price your local FFL paid for it? Hell no, if Bud’s has it $100 cheaper than MSRP and $65 cheaper than your FFL, you are getting it from Buds. Same principle.

EDIT: EmpireState and I are in perfect agreement. Ultimately, this is a simple transaction: you want the product at the cheapest price.

As I stated in the OP I haven't bought a vehicle for myself in 30 years. I walked out of the first meeting and the salesman called me back two days later with a phantom factory price reduction. I paid 138 dollars a month for the Ranger I'm still in today. As far as trim levels I'd be happy with AC and a heater that works. Both of which I don't have on the truck I'm driving now.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
Goose5, you seem to be very new at this so I’ll break it down (bought 10+ cars recently):

1. You have to KNOW the car you want. Critical. Make, model, year, what trim or options. Do this however you’d like, drive your friends’ vehicles, test drive, whatever.

2. Once you have #1, do a bit of online research. Literally go to cars.com and figure out what dealers are advertising the vehicles that match your specifications. This is a “ballpark” figure, in other words a sanity check.

3. Email the dealers in whatever is a comfortable driving distance for you (I’ve bought cars in Texas, and live in Florida. Your case may be different). Ask for their best, out the door price including ALL taxes and fees, for your county (especially if it’s an out of state purchase).

4. Buy the car that is cheapest from #3.

This way, you ignore the MSRP, Invoice, and whatever other irrelevant nonsense people can dream up. If this was a gun, would you care what the manufacturer suggested price is, or the price your local FFL paid for it? Hell no, if Bud’s has it $100 cheaper than MSRP and $65 cheaper than your FFL, you are getting it from Buds. Same principle.

EDIT: EmpireState and I are in perfect agreement. Ultimately, this is a simple transaction: you want the product at the cheapest price.

great post

bottom line -- knowledge is power. the more you know going in -- the better deal you can get

and always remember -- they make a TON off the Finance 'back room guy'... financing rate, extended warranty, 'car shield', etc etc Be vigilant when you go to sign the docs and read VERY closely everything on those pages. They can try to slide other profit items in there if you're not paying attention.

lastly -- when you get a good deal - be content and sleep well at night. there will ALWAYS be some guy somewhere who got the EXACT same car for $2,000 less.

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I've set up an alternate email. Went to a couple of dealership sites. They don't list any email address for them.

quote:

espectfully, that’s wrong as well. Target price is the lowest out the door number...period.

regardless, taxes and registration fees have to be added. as far as any junk fees or other add ons...they are not to be paid. so the difference between my target and your out the door is taxes and registration. Nothing else should be paid.

We had a 97 RAV4 that we liked quite a bit. I think We bought a truck a few years later for remodeling and had a company Taurus but my wife hated driving that Tundra. Still talks about the RAV4, lol. Anyhow she now has a Mazda3. We got a great deal on it through Costco and also 0.00% financing. Mazda's CX-5 might be worth a look if you're not dead set on the RAV4. Looks like they have some good deals available. We'll likely add a CX-5 or RAV4 in the next five years as my kids become driving age and will let them use the Mazda3.

True car is owner by car manufacturers to inflate the price of their vehicles and make you think they are a 3rd party google shopping cars for the lowest price.
it isn't.
if you want the true lowest price you have to beat the pavement and try to make deals with as much knowledge as you can scour

Doing it all online is fine if you know exactly what you you want, but sometimes you don’t know if a car is going to work or be comfortable for you. There are times you have to go in for a test drive because some things you can’t tell from reviews or pictures alone. That’s the part I struggle with, because once you walk in the door, they pressure you to buy now, and you may not get the deal you would online. Don’t want to wast everyone’s time by doing a deal online and then deciding that I’m not interested in the vehicle after a test drive.

quote:

Originally posted by nasig:
NO. Your target price is INVOICE plus some reasonable mark up for the dealer less rebates unless you are looking at some rare or really in demand/short supply vehicle.

So I'm looking on edmunds at a Kia Sorento and it says that MSRP is $36.5K, Invoice Price is $35.1K and Edmunds Suggested Price is $29.2K.

I don't see how the Invoice Price helps.

I've looked on trucar.com several times and I've never seen an invoice price listed.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
Doing it all online is fine if you know exactly what you you want, but sometimes you don’t know if a car is going to work or be comfortable for you. There are times you have to go in for a test drive because some things you can’t tell from reviews or pictures alone. That’s the part I struggle with, because once you walk in the door, they pressure you to buy now, and you may not get the deal you would online. Don’t want to wast everyone’s time by doing a deal online and then deciding that I’m not interested in the vehicle after a test drive.

I've been hanging out on a subreddit called askcarsales for a couple of months now. Here is what I've learned.

Buying a car isn't really that different than buying a gun. What do you do when you buy a gun? You check out Web sites like Gunbroker.com and maybe the classifieds section of a few gun forums to get an idea of a fair price, a good price and a great price. Then you start looking around for the gun you want at the price you want. When you find it you make an offer and if the seller accepts you have a deal.

Buying a car really isn't that different. You can check out Web sites like trucar.com and edmunds to get an idea of a fair price, a good price and a great price. You can then check out those sites as well as the manufacturer Web sites and dealer Web sites to find a dealer with the car you want in stock.

Once you've located several dealers with the car you want, arrange your financing. That is the second part. I recommend arranging your financing your credit union or bank before you go to the dealer. That way that part is out of the way.

Most of the people who get jammed up here are people with lousy credit.

The final piece of the puzzle is the value of your trade-in. Again you can look at edmunds and trucar to get an idea. You can also shope your trade at places like CarMax. Carvana and Vroom.

So you know what you should pay for the new car, your financing is arranged and you know the value of your trade-in. Go to the dealership and make an offer. I know this goes against what many are saying here. But think about this for a moment. If you are a sales person who are you more interested in dealing with, the person standing right in front of you who knows the exact vehicle they want to buy and has their financing already arranged, or the person on the phone who wants to know your best out the door price?

Have you ever read any of the stories from people selling guns or anything else online who get people saying they will send money and never do? Guess what, those same people are out buying cars as well. How many people do you think call a dealership asking for the best "out the door" price and never call back or show up? I bet it is probably the same amount that say will send money for a gun and never do.

Go to the dealership when you are ready to buy. If they don't like your offer then thank them for you time and head to the next. If you go to three dealers and they all say no then you need to reassess if what you are asking is reasonable.

One final note, it is a sellers market right now. Car dealerships are reporting their best year ever. The prevailing theory on this is that the people who are still working aren't spending money on fancy vacations so they are spending it on cars. Combine that with stimulus money and the fact that many factories were temporarily shut down and it has led to increased demand with dwindling supply.

Toyotas are extremely popular. Don't expect to get much discount off of MSRP for a RAV4.

I detest buying vehicles because of this entire process is.....something, I can't think of the right word right this moment.

Dealing with salesmen and F&I people is like wrestling a pig in the mud. You don't enjoy it, you get filthy and worn out and disgusted and then you realize the pig really enjoys it, does it every day, is a a pro at it, and laughs all the way to the bank.

Sorry, I got no other advice for you.

Good luck to you.

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
Dealing with salesmen and F&I people is like wrestling a pig in the mud. You don't enjoy it, you get filthy and worn out and disgusted and then you realize the pig really enjoys it, does it every day, is a a pro at it, and laughs all the way to the bank.

Brilliant!

I once spent an entire Saturday at the Chevrolet dealer buying a new car at the price it was boldly advertised in the newspaper. This was 1986, before the internet. They tried six different ways to raise the price but I remained adamant and eventually got it at the advertised price. It was miserable. No trade involved.

The next time I went car shopping, I told the salesman that I HAD to leave in two hours. That helped a lot.

quote:

practice

go into a dealership that you are unlikely to buy from, research a car and go in and try to cut a deal, but never sign. see how they push you, how long to get the manager to seal the deal. you also push them on the value of your trade, you will want this at dealer #2

research what you actually want to buy every way come sunday. Cars.com, autotrader, kbb,

price certified used of the same vehicle, this helps you judge where the value goes in a short time.

never go to a dealership hungry
never go impatient
always have plenty of time

remember if they close at 9 the sales guy has until 930 to hold the place open, so if you show up at 6 you aren't getting the best deal done for 3-3.5 hours later. what ever the deal is a 730-8, it can still get better.

this is the don't go hungry part.

if it were me, I would be hawking every source online to find the deal now, go in on Friday 10/30 around 3pm. Drive it pet it, let them hawk over your car and try to work a deal, then leave promptly at about 7pm.

then the phone will blow up around 8pm begging you to come back tomorrow 10/31 a Saturday.

make them hold the car then show up Saturday early am. If they change the deal walk out right away.

have lunch at a local restaurant then call back to get the deal worked out that afternoon as you had planned.

This is ridiculous and seems to be way too time consuming.

I sold Fords for a while to help pay for college and will say flat out that if someone disrespected my and their time like that I would intentionally blow up the deal. There are some people that just aren't worth having as customers.

Also, for some people it takes 4 or 5 hours to sell them a car because they have no idea what they want, their credit is as fucked as Hogan's goat, and their trade should be labeled a superfund site.

Some of you might be surprised as to inventory levels available right now. The wife just got a MB GLE350 last month and within a few hundred miles of us there were about 6. I'm going to go ahead and say that right now is probably the worst time to buy, new and used.

I'll agree that right now is probably not a good time to buy a new vehicle depending on the model.

My wife wanted a new car a few weeks ago. We visited several dealerships and the supply of crossovers that she was interested in was pretty low and dealers would not deal much if any on them at all. We walked from all of them and will purchase something later when inventories are higher and dealerships are willing to deal.

We have only received a call from one out of 5 dealerships we visited who wanted to talk about what it would take to get us in a vehicle. No, $100 under the sticker is not going to get us in the vehicle.

The Costco plan isn’t bad, probably leaving some money on the table but it may make your buying process less complex. I’d agree with above though, depending on your finances and needs...right now is not a really good time to buy any vehicle if you don’t need to.