quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
A heavy handed government is exponentially more dangerous than such loons.

I neither want nor need my government to "protect me" from such people.

Freedom has its costs, and this tragedy is one of them.

Well said.

Look, people die. And most will never choose the manner, time, and place. Throughout world history, there has always been mass murder, whether by guns, explosives, airplanes, knives, etc. Hell Jim Jones killed almost a thousand people with kool-aid and poison.

Just recently, This guy killed everyone in his bus in China.

We all know banning AR15s will not cease this kind of mayhem. Firearms is just another tool for these maniacs.

NBC and CBS news tonight fanning the gun control fires with raw emotion.

Always remember: Gun control is NOT about guns, its about CONTROL.

Many more people are killed every year by distracted driving that mass shootings.

The cell phone is far more lethal than a gun in that case.

quote:

Originally posted by tleddy:
The Wall Street Journal reports today that the shooter had a history of at least one mental break in which he fired a bullet through a wall.

Please find and read the article - anyone that requires law enforcement intervention taking half a day and firing a weapon through a wall should not be allowed a firearm.

The report that he was cleared by mental health evaluators as OK makes me insane.

In my opinion, that failure to disarm and prevent this tragedy rests in the lap of whatever city or
County performed the evaluation and failed to act!
Liability for this tragedy rests squarely on the California authority that allowed him to continue.

So that's all well and good but what are the standards?
Whatever Kommiefornia decides who is crazy?
They think anyone who owns a gun, anyone with more that 10 rounds of ammo in their house and anything more than a 32 caliber should be scrutinized.
The "mental health" angle is not an easy one to figure out.
In Texas you are "crazy" if you don't own a gun.
I don't know all the above details and perhaps something could have been done, don't know.
I will say setting arbitrary standards can be dangerous too where good people can get swept up.
Just need to be careful on shifting standards.
YMMV

quote:

Originally posted by Rob Decker:

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
A heavy handed government is exponentially more dangerous than such loons.

I neither want nor need my government to "protect me" from such people.

Freedom has its costs, and this tragedy is one of them.

Sigh, thinking things through and not rushing to “For heaven’s sake do something!” leads one straight to the above conclusion. It may not be pretty, it may not be totally satisfying, but if we care about liberty and we think, that is where we end up.

I do not have the crystal ball with the right answer. However - "crazy with a gun" is happening too often.

Any of us can probably call the ball on these when they happen. Known crazy. Known problem. Known dangerous. Nothing done til the murderer, well, became a murderer.

Mental health in this country is severely broken. While I'm not about to jump on the "just lock them up" bandwagon, we have GOT to do a better job as a nation at this.

Everybody knew that Cruz (Florida) was nuts. Nobody did anything until he killed a bunch of people. Now it seems the state knew this guy was at best violently unstable.

And their failure to act will be used to remind every American that any of millions of their fellow citizens, including every single member of this forum, might just snap at any moment, and for that reason, we must be disarmed.

Edit to add, just in case someone takes that the wrong way - of course I don't agree with that message. But that's already the message many are pushing, and we all know it.

With luck, and perseverance on our part, that will fail, but I fear we're gonna reach the wrong intersection of politics and public frustration eventually.

I do not accept this state of affairs.

This "state of affairs" exists during one of the most prosperous and safest times in human history in nearly every imaginable regard. "Too often"? It seems to happen (in America) a time or two a year at most (the long view average is less than 1 per year), by almost always a single loon. So, what, one loon episode a year for more than 300 Million Americans and oodles of tourists and business travelers, in a place with a popular "gun culture" where we own more legal firearms than there are people, where 90+% of the country has no camera coverage like the nanny state of London, where one can travel coast to coast and come and go with near invisibility/anonymity in many places? Those are *tiny* numbers. Just 1 in 300 Million a year slips through the proverbial cracks. We're not failing, we're doing an amazing job. A (quite literally) near-perfect job. And anyone with sense and experience knows perfection is almost never obtained.

Should we strive to improve it even better? Fuck yes.

As for the rest, CNN and the 24hr Always-On and Connected culture is as much to blame for the hysteria as anything.

And if you look at the entire world and the entire human population the already incredibly long odds shrink to *super tiny* and that even includes the suicide bombers in the Middle East.

So, no sir, we should all reject the assertions that it's rampant, out of control, particularly dangerous, or otherwise. Sure, it's more dangerous in Jerusalem than Joplin, but even the vast majority of people living in Jerusalem never get shot, blown up, or whatever else.

It's precisely in times like this, following tragedies like this, that we need to be the strongest.

Hold the line. Enemies are at the gate.

^Jebus 46and2. I owe you a beer.

quote:

Originally posted by thunderson:
^Jebus 46and2. I owe you a beer.

I'll bring the whiskey.

A byproduct of the shooting; residents in Thousand Oaks are now arming themselves. From USA Today

"The Borderline Bar and Grill in Thousand Oaks, site of the nation's latest major deadly mass shooting, rests just north of a residential neighborhood in this normally placid California enclave.

The horror that erupted there late Wednesday night brought out Brandon Simone and his neighbor, Molly, who live in apartments down the street from the bar.

Molly, who asked that her last name not be used for her own safety, opened up her apartment and meager first-aid kit to survivors suffering broken bones, open gashes and mental anguish while they awaited medical treatment.

Following that sleepless night, Simone and Molly drove together three miles down the road to VC Defense, the only brick-and-mortar gun store in town.

Simone, 35, is a single father who previously vowed never to have a gun in the same home as his kid. But while his teenage son Ethan skateboarded outside, he asked the shop's owner what he needed to do to buy a 9-millimeter pistol.

Molly filmed VC Defense’s handgun display with her phone and sent the video to her boyfriend, insisting that he immediately buy one.

For John Von Colln, VC Defense’s proprietor, the duo were among an unusually steady stream of customers that day. Many of them expressed the same sentiment: they had come to the gun store because no place feels safe anymore, and they felt ill-equipped to confront the next mass shooter or armed home invader. "

I was pleasantly surprised to see that in USA Today. I've heard Thousand Oaks is one of the more conservative enclaves in CA, but there were also some die hard libs mentioned who own guns but don't tell any of their friends they have them.

Meanwhile, all the LA sports teams (one of which is near and dear to me) have been using this #enough drivel in support of the victims. They're taking a stance against something, while really taking a stance against nothing because they offer no arguments or positions. Somehow if we all just say "that's enough" the violence in this world will abruptly stop and we can all hold hands and live happily ever after.

#dumb

Freedom is dangerous, but far safer than slavery.

This is what CAN happen when the "CRAZY" rule runs amuck with little foundation.

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/9680064944

quote:

Originally posted by Puckpilot78:
I was pleasantly surprised to see that in USA Today. I've heard Thousand Oaks is one of the more conservative enclaves in CA, but there were also some die hard libs mentioned who own guns but don't tell any of their friends they have them.

In general yes, compared to conservativism across the country, it's moderate. Simi Valley is just up the road, which has been the most reliable red-area of LA basin region now that Orange County is leaning purple. It's solidly middle class with a swatch of affluence and agriculture, an enviable place to raise a family. The delta between Dems vs GOP is only 2.5%, dream scenario is either more conservatives move there to outnumber the surfers and Anthropologie/Free People mommies or, better candidates run and rise above the 'GOP are bigots' mantra thats been shoved down peoples throats by Dem candidates and media. Either way, the central coastal county's up until recently, were conservative if not moderate areas that balanced the two metro areas of the state.

People used to have a flight or fight system in their brain.
Now ( according to some Phd smarty farty )
because of the games movies and tv shows with an overabundance of violence ,

there is a third response , called freeze.

people literally just freeze and watch the action , what ever it may be, as it happens in front of them .

no hiding, no fighting, no nothing they just stand and watch.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:

no hiding, no fighting, no nothing they just stand and watch.

...And record it on their iPhones.

46and2, well done, sir!

quote:

People used to have a flight or fight system in their brain.
Now ( according to some Phd smarty farty )
because of the games movies and tv shows with an overabundance of violence ,

there is a third response , called freeze.

The fact that some people freeze has nothing to do with any of the above. I would like to see the source for those comments. Freeze is something squirrels do, it is not all bad. Your reaction to these situations is shaped by your personality and for many upon training. Despite training there will allways be a few people who just stand there. {They provide good cover for those of us who know what to do}.


Much of this so called "research" is written by armchair academics who know nothing about violence. I doubt that Dr. Jordan Peterson would agree with this stupidity.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Many more people are killed every year by distracted driving that mass shootings.

The cell phone is far more lethal than a gun in that case.

So is a Hospital, where nearly a half million patients die each year from poor sanitary conditions or given the wrong prescription.

Major newspapers have reported this Medical problem for many years, but so far no public outcry.

Everyone shot died. All injured was by stampede. 4 off duty police officers were present but not armed as per CA law. Well trained crazy gunner. More than likely the next mass shooting has already been planned. Better stock up.

quote:

4 off duty police officers were present but not armed as per CA law.

Guess where the problem is?

quote:

Originally posted by black1970:
Everyone shot died. All injured was by stampede. 4 off duty police officers were present but not armed as per CA law.

I heard somewhere that there were six off duty cops in the bar, all unarmed. I find that pretty appalling.

What is the CA law? That off duty officers can't carry in a bar? Or that they simply can't carry with even one sip of alcohol? Both laws by the way would be nonsense in my opinion. In Utah, as a non-LEO, I can do both.