quote:

The point was a fixed price EVERYONE pays

in what non socialist world is that a good idea.
Excluding the current mess it is absolutely trivial to get a decent price on a vehicle. Not the absolute best price but a decent price, and your time investment is likely less than an hour. And even in today's shortage a small investment of time/energy can probably save a meaningful amount.
But as I said its all optional.

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:
Was the cost of a Saturn the same in every state?

Of the ones I saw, yes.

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:
On a couple of occasions, after making a good deal, they would call me up a couple of days later and say they made a mistake and I needed to give them an extra $2500.

Oh, golly! That'd be the day ol' vthoky's filter popped open!

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:
Was the cost of a Saturn the same in every state?

Of the ones I saw, yes.

Thanks vthoky.

I had a co-worker that had a couple of them over the years. He drove more than 100 miles round trip daily. He was bummed out when they went belly up.

Scion used to have fixed pricing as well. I think it was referred to as "pure pricing." It was that way when I bought a new Scion tC 5 speed back in 2008.

Regarding haggling, I think Americans are not used to it. Most places I've been to outside of America, haggling is the norm.

I remember in Afghanistan at the bazzars, the younger American Soldiers had a lot of trouble haggling, especially those who had never bought a car before. The First Sergeant got pissed at a young Soldier when he paid $12 for a haircut because that could have set the new precedent for the price of a haircut. Personally I loved haggling with them.

My dad was a notorious haggler. He haggled everywhere from car dealerships to big box retailers.

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:
Thanks vthoky.

I had a co-worker that had a couple of them over the years. He drove more than 100 miles round trip daily. He was bummed out when they went belly up.

[thread drift] I was a big fan of the Saturn effort -- in fact, I tried at one point to move my career there. It was a good plan ("experiment") overall, and worked pretty well to start. Saturn outgrew itself quickly -- that is, customers who wanted to upgrade from their SL/SL1/SL2 had nothing to move into without changing brands. Later on, Saturn brought in the larger LS and their SUV, but for many customers that came around too late. Several of my friends had SL-series cars, and ran the absolute tar out of them. They were neat little inexpensive cars. I, too, was bummed when GM pulled the plug on Saturn. [/thread drift]

What’s the point of dealerships anymore if they’re all going to fixed pricing? They can go away and we just order our cars online like anything else then.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
What’s the point of dealerships anymore if they’re all going to fixed pricing? They can go away and we just order our cars online like anything else then.

That works for me.

^^^^^^^
Me too. I read of a guy who bought a new Mercedes every two years. The dealer sold it at cost, explaining that they would make it up on maintenance of the car.

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:
Why take away the option to negotiate?

Because not everyone enjoys the time-wasting, nit-nat, haggle-draggle, gotta-go-see-my-manager, bullcrap that is negotiating with a car dealer.

Saturn's model was entirely no-hassle. No sales lizard in a bad tie would bum-rush you when you hit the lot. There was no pressure to buy, or to move into a different/more expensive model, or to buy add-on trinkets. Essentially, Saturn said, "we've built a car and would like for you to buy it. Come on by and see us, at your leisure." Buying a Saturn was as easy as buying toothpaste. Find the one you want, go inside and pay. Done.

Some people seem to absolutely thrive on the car deal negotiation game. Many of us don't enjoy it a bit.

Wife and I have developed a procedure for buying a car. Have used it for years and saved a lot of money. If the salesperson is male, wife does the negotiation. If female, I do it. Out of curiosity, I was looking at the prices for a new pickup. Mine is a 2000 model Silverado. I quit looking when I saw prices starting at $50-60K. Maybe I am just so far behind the times but the prices they are demanding seem excessive.

It could be worse.

Dealerships and manufacturers could simply change the "MSRP" to "Asking Price" and pit customers against each other with bidding wars. There wouldn't be any pricing at all, fixed or otherwise. Just bring your highest and best offer.

^^^^^^^^^^^
In that case I would pay my friend a couple of bucks who bids on used and wrecked cars on a weekly basis. I am kind of surprised there are not "Professional Hagglers" who will do this for a fee. I contract out stuff I don't like doing. Buying a new car would be near the top of my list, along with plumbing.

quote:

Originally posted by arfmel:

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
What’s the point of dealerships anymore if they’re all going to fixed pricing? They can go away and we just order our cars online like anything else then.

That works for me.

The sales part of dealers doesn't seem to have value. I used to think sales people at dealers knew the vehicles and could help guide someone to the right vehicle. That's never been the case, so if all they do is try to guide you to buy what benefits them and the dealer most, why use them?

The Tesla / Saturn model seems more efficient. See a car in person, try it out, then buy if you wish. No games.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

Dealerships and manufacturers could simply change the "MSRP" to "Asking Price" and pit customers against each other with bidding wars. There wouldn't be any pricing at all, fixed or otherwise. Just bring your highest and best offer.

You mean like real estate?

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:

Regarding haggling, I think Americans are not used to it. Most places I've been to outside of America, haggling is the norm.

I remember in Afghanistan at the bazzars, the younger American Soldiers had a lot of trouble haggling , especially those who had never bought a car before. The First Sergeant got pissed at a young Soldier when he paid $12 for a haircut because that could have set the new precedent for the price of a haircut. Personally I loved haggling with them.

My dad was a notorious haggler. He haggled everywhere from car dealerships to big box retailers.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
^^^^^^^^^^^
In that case I would pay my friend a couple of bucks who bids on used and wrecked cars on a weekly basis. I am kind of surprised there are not "Professional Hagglers" who will do this for a fee. I contract out stuff I don't like doing. Buying a new car would be near the top of my list, along with plumbing.

There are. If you dislike haggling so much, look for an auto broker local to you on Yelp. They negotiate on your behalf and often get better pricing by steering their repeat business to particular dealerships and known salespeople. Works well for people who know nothing about cars as well, and need guidance on picking it a vehicle.

"Coffee's for closers only"

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
^^^^^^^^^^^
I am kind of surprised there are not "Professional Hagglers" who will do this for a fee.

Me too. Most people absolutely hate the process. I definitely understand the frustration.

Several years back , A lady friend of mine was looking for a Loaded Camry XSE. She went to the dealership and got a quote. I told her it was too much and to let me call around. I made a few phone calls to other Dealers in the area and told them I would buy if they would sell me the car for the price I asked. Within the hour, I had one of the Dealers call me back and say yes.
All I did was take her quote and subtract $3000.00 from the price. It was that easy and she saved 3k. She did have to drive a couple of hours to pick the car up but it was worth it to her.

That presumes multiple buyers for each car. Now, with constrained supply due to multiple supply chain issues, that may be the case. In normal times it isn't. Most dealerships have multiple of essentially the same car sitting on their lots, waiting for a buyer to show up. That being the case, you're methodology falls apart.

In order for it to work, makers would have to commit to permanent lower production numbers. That screws with their production efficiency (spreading fixed costs over more cars.) So they're not going to want to do that.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
It could be worse.

Dealerships and manufacturers could simply change the "MSRP" to "Asking Price" and pit customers against each other with bidding wars. There wouldn't be any pricing at all, fixed or otherwise. Just bring your highest and best offer.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
What’s the point of dealerships anymore if they’re all going to fixed pricing? They can go away and we just order our cars online like anything else then.

I dunno, if I were in charge of a dealership, I would probably focus more on low margin and high volume (assuming the supply chain was normal) in addition to really pushing service. Service is where the real money maker is. I know of dealerships who also sell parts at cost + 10% and make great volume. They have a presence on enthusiast forums and have a great business model of shipping parts all over the country.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
^^^^^^^^^^^
In that case I would pay my friend a couple of bucks who bids on used and wrecked cars on a weekly basis. I am kind of surprised there are not "Professional Hagglers" who will do this for a fee. I contract out stuff I don't like doing. Buying a new car would be near the top of my list, along with plumbing.

This guy does: https://bacacademy.podia.com/

And he has a YouTube channel:

quote:

In normal times it isn't. Most dealerships have multiple of essentially the same car sitting on their lots, waiting for a buyer to show up.

The dealers will get buyers to show up en masse by advertising their cars at a price much lower than what they will actually accept.

I think this idea has a lot of merit, and fixes the traditional idea that negotiating involves the concept of a de-escalating price.

Maybe one buyer is paying cash. Perhaps another needs to finance. There are so many variables involved that make it difficult to actually state a price a dealer is willing to accept, but will likely know when they hear it. They can use that low price to gain interest, get potential buyers emotionally invested, and then use that as leverage to see which buyer really wants it the most by offering the highest amount.

If a company can make twice the profit, they only need to sell half of the cars to remain in the same position. We only need to get these nation wide dealers associations to get their members on board. Manufacturers make more money. Dealerships make more money. Sales persons make more money. Consumers spend more money. Everybody wins!

quote:

I would probably focus more on low margin and high volume (assuming the supply chain was normal) in addition to really pushing service. Service is where the real money maker is

I'd bet that as far as new cars go, selling them is likely the least profitable aspect of the business.