At that age, it is normal that girls don't like boys, and vice versa. For the next few years, boys won't want girls playing with them as much too.

I know the OP has a move coming up soon. Perhaps a different location (Midwest, I believe) and different environment will have an effect.

She hasn’t been indoctrinated in the slightest. This has been from the time she could speak or formulate thoughts. It’s been her whole life.

My wife’s family is catholic hispanics. They fight this to a point I have to tell them to shut the fuck up and her dad will let her be whoever she wants to be.

I understand at her age she doesn’t KNOW yet what she wants as far as relationships goes and other related topics. But she knows who she is, this hasn’t been a phase or fad for her, it’s quite literally been HER since I could tell. For those saying she doesn’t know anything at her age, I get that logic. But I can’t quite put into words that this isn’t just something she’s in to.

To somewhat prove my point, if a kid is going through a phase you can easily trick them. You can present alternatives that you know they can’t resist. If a teen wants to be a vegetarian, offer them their favorite meat, even with a reward of some sort and they will falter. This kid, never wavers. Ask her anything and she’ll answer in a manner in line with what she says she wants. Mathematically she would have faltered at some point if this wasn’t engrained in her. It’s hard to quantify her feelings towards this but trust when I say it’s who she is. Again, maybe she’ll change with age and physical changes, I just don’t see it happening.

My son has wanted to be a paleontologist since he was 3, he’s now going for his PHD towards that profession. That commitment is what I see in her. It’s not a THING she plays at or puts on for others, it’s just her.

Hamden, I appreciate the response. I don’t know if her life is headed to that conclusion or not. I’m not so much focused on 15-20 years from now at this time either. More so focused on navigating the present. That’s not to say that if that’s what happens with her I won’t be just as loving or anything, we’re just not at that stage yet given her age. But she’s probably closer to that path than a so called normal one.

Thank yall for your responses. I’m gonna talk to her again tomorrow after school. Maybe take her out alone and see if she is okay with all of it. As best as she can be.

Having gone through this myself with a son who “became” female, I would add my warning that the psychiatric community is going to be a problem for you. The accepted “treatment protocols” among the counseling professionals is to “affirm” a child’s desire to transition.

That is what happened with my child. His high school counselor, a young woman, encouraged him to transition. That counselor found him an MD that would further reinforce his desire to transition… and that is the road he has been on for more than a decade.


I love both my children, but the professionals my son encountered along the way have convinced him that he hates the “body he was born into.” It’s hard to imagine a more problematic mental attitude to adopt and live with.


Be VERY careful whom you choose to help you through this.

OttoSig thanks for bringing up this topic and sharing your families situation.

As stated above I believe your unconditional love and support is the most critical thing you can provide at this point. Seeking competent psychological support is also a good idea but as stated above there are some in that field who have an agenda. I went through that with my younger son (about a different concern) and it actually set us back until I found a wonderful psychologist who was able to put all the pieces of the puzzle back together for us. He is now 32, married with a wonderful daughter and on the way making his own family memories.

I wish you and your family all the best.

Lots of thoughtful points in this thread.

You are managing an incredibly difficult situation quite well.

One way to think about this is that there is nothing wrong with being a tomboy. Everything a young boy can do that are considered "boy" things a young girl can do. She isn't a boy, but that does not limit what she can pursue at this age. As she gets older, maybe she can appreciate the unique gift that is given to women to give birth to new life.

Are there opportunities that might appeal to her maternal side? Animals - from riding to visiting an animal shelter? Entertainment (books, movies, etc.) that reinforce the message that as a girl she can do girl or boy things?

The point made in a number of the posts that children go through many phases is quite true.

Also, that the medical / education community in general is likely to be as much a problem as a help.

I had a cousin that was just like this. Same age as me. My parents said she was a tomboy and I just accepted that as her identity. She was a boy through and through growing up. Tough rowdy farm kid. She got married and had two sons. Her husband left her because, I guess, he was living closeted and decided to come out and be a gay man.

My cousin went to CSU and got a degree and worked in animal husbandry and taught school. She was a very difficult person to fully know and I think maybe if there had been an easier path for her she may still be living. She was strong and seemed to force herself into the female role and in hindsight that was probably not the best thing for her mentally. I have no idea if she ever saw a therapist or anything. I wasn't real close to her as adults but I certainly do miss her.

I know this is not much comfort to you, OP, but I would only say continue to support her and love her as you have been doing. You sound like a great parent.

I would find a Christian counselor for her and yourself. I would also make sure she’s not being influenced by social media or someone else.

My gut reaction is since her twin is super girly and probably gets attention for being pretty, She went the opposite direction to get her attention.

I would thank most of the posters above for their compassionate and worthwhile advice, and I certainly wish the best for the OP's family, but there is another matter of concern to be addressed. I have no kids and will not recommend any course of action WRT your daughter. I will point out that the notion of a "tomboy" long predates any of us here.

My concern is for the OP. Having seen a situation play out with a family in Mrs. A's church, I would recommend that a responsible adult in this situation consider the possibility that some meddlesome individual may "report" the daughter's dilemma to the CPS (Child Protective Services) authorities. When this happened in the family I am familiar with, they came very close to losing a child to foster care.

In some jurisdictions, there are actually laws that equate denial of child "sexual conversion therapy" with physical parental abuse. It appears that many CPS workers working under less coercive mandates have similar beliefs, and in any case, seem to adopt a guilty until innocent perspective on any accusation no matter how flimsy. As well as talking to a psychiatrist, the OP may want to ensure that competent legal counsel is available at short notice.

Do you think that being a twin has anything to do with this?

If I were a twin, I think that I would want to separate myself from my twin and show that I am an individual and not an exact copy of another person. I know what I just said implies this was a choice. Choices are being made at very, VERY early ages though. Everyone touches a hot stove exactly ONE time in their lives. Lesson learned and the choice to not do it again has be made forever. Maybe it's just the desire to be a lil' bit more of an individual instead of being a twin?

It's clear you love your kids dearly. Love and support is what they need at this age. As a father, I never tried to stop my kids from going through the ups and downs of life or protect them from all bad things in the world. Keep continuing to support her individuality. She needs to know everything isn't accepted by everyone though, and also how to deal with it herself.

I would actually discourage you from getting a psychologist or psychiatrist involved if you were my brother or family member. They're 8yrs old. The last thing I would want is someone telling me how to "make" my kids be something other than what they naturally are. Let time show you the direction to go and there simply hasn't been enough of a sample size to start receiving "controlling" advice.

I'm thankful that I have been able to be there to love my kids through their journey and give them advice based on my life experience. I want them to climb to the mountain top and if they ever fall, I'll be there to catch them. When things fall apart we get them back on track and send them back out into the world stronger and ready to go at it again. This is my advice to you Sir. You are doing a fine job, just stay the course you're on!

quote:

Originally posted by ruger357:

My gut reaction is since her twin is super girly and probably gets attention for being pretty, She went the opposite direction to get her attention.

I 100% agree with you that having a twin as an example of a girly girl affects her. I’m not saying it doesn’t help, but it gives her something to see with every decision she makes.

ETA: I hadn’t yet seen your response FLKEV, but yes. I’ve strongly considered the twin dynamic being a driving force behind how she’s developed. It has an undeniable impact on a lot of development in all twins it seems.

I would avoid “professionals” like the plague. They are much more likely to encourage what very likely is nothing more than a normal part of her growth. Love her, continue keeping the worldly influences away as best you can. I would severely constrain her access to popular media. Social media in particular is very good at making poor choices seem like great choices or even it’s not a choice it just is you. Your truth and all that nonsense.

I wish you well. I suspect she will grow out of at least portions of what you describe. Full blown transitions are pretty uncommon without outside influence. Prayers to you and yours.

Growing up I knew three boys that were different.

One was in elementary school two were in Jr high.

They all later came out as gay.

In my son's elementary schools, one of my son's classmates was gay. All the kids knew by third or fourth grade.

I never cared one way or the other.

I have met several transgender adults.

They seem happy settled into their preferred sex roles.

You are in Georgia, that is a no treatment for transgender minors state.

Let your daughter's life play out at it's own.

Be neutral, it could be a phase or it could be the road to changes down the road.

Some children go through an identity phase and then go back to their biological sex.

Talk with your daughter, also make sure no one did something that made being a girl unpleasant.

The kids I have seen not do well with all this type of stuff are the one that did not get parental support.

Just love your child unconditionally, it will all work out on it's own.

Like others who have posted, I have no children, but I do have some thoughts.

I hadn’t heard the term “tomboy” in a very long time, but what it signifies, that there are girls who want to do things that are more commonly associated with boys’ activities is extremely common and always has been. It’s not just something that affects young girls either. History is full of accounts of women who refused to submit (yes, submit is the right word) to societal expectations about their sex.

I just finished the book Destroyer of Worlds: The Deep History of the Nuclear Age by Frank Close that discusses the activities and contributions of women such as Marie Curie to the study of nuclear physics and describes the obstacles they had to overcome in the 19th and early 20th centuries simply because they were women. The same sort of thing was common in other fields and some women openly expressed how they wished they were men who didn’t have to deal with the limitations placed on them because of their sex (or “gender” if that word offends).

What I believe has become different in modern times is the idea that it’s possible to do something about not having been born as the sex one would prefer, i.e., being able to change whether one is either male or female. For a person today to become convinced that that’s something they want to do doesn’t necessarily require directed indoctrination. All that’s very often necessary is for us to simply hear of an idea through the various sources of information we’re exposed to start thinking it’s something we want to do. Modern sources of information also commonly expose us to ideas that would have been literally unthinkable at one time—and whether we seek them out or not.

Most of the time children’s and young adults’ desires and interests change over time, and often that’s because they learn what their ideas actually involve. As I think back over my life I can only thank fate that I didn’t end up doing certain things I thought I wanted to do.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, and wishing the best for you and your family.

Touching on a couple points.

They have no access to social media.

It’ll be a cold day in hell before anything is done to alter her body physically. As I mentioned before, what she decides to do past 18 is her choice but we’ll definitely do our best to make her understand that stuff is permanent and she better be damn sure.

I don’t necessarily HOPE like my wife does that she’ll change with puberty, get married, and have babies. My wife is obviously very traditional and see this path for all her daughters. I just want her to understand she’s a girl, will be a woman one day, and can act however she wants. Obviously related to her feelings, not act like a fool.

I’ve had some reservations about a professional. The school meetings didn’t go as the facility had anticipated I suspect. Her first grade teacher told me, “I have a transgender son too”. “I replied, I don’t, she still doesn’t know Santa isn’t real, she’s a girl. When they mentioned bathroom use I felt like I was talking to a room full of idiots. It was in Maryland so I know some topics are mandated by law to be discussed with the parents but come on.

I’ve probably missed some points made in the responses. I assure yall I’m not a great parent lol. But growing up with a real POS father I made the promise to myself that I’d always be here. Even if I’m here doing it wrong lol. I have a soft spot for her situation because I see how it’s tough on her. It was a battle with her mom to let her cut her hair short. Her mom cried when she got it cut. Moms, women, emotions blah blah blah I suppose. It’s hair, it’ll grow back.

I really do appreciate the sincere thoughts and replies in the thread.

ETA: I gotta update my location to Wisconsin. I’d have to research it but I may fall under Florida’s laws as that is my families official home of record. I don’t know the legal decisions regarding that situation but it’s worth exploring before talking to a professional.

I have no input for you except that I will be praying for you and your daughter so that you will have wisdom on what to do.

No kids here, but it sounds like you're doing the right thing.

I would however be VERY worried about the school and teachers shoving transgenderism and how "normal" it is down the kids throat. There's an agenda with basically every school and faculty these days, and traditional American/Christian values ain't it unless it's a hardcore private school.

Otto, thank you for having the courage to post this. There are people who face this issue and feel alone and isolated, so your willingness to discuss it in this forum is commendable.

I think you are on the right track. Discussing things with her is spot on. Someone else said to be wary of those who will see this as an opportunity is worth considering as well.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: VMI 1991,

So I guess my qualifications here are that I am a girl that grew up as something of a tomboy, and my 12-year-old son has a good friend who is on the transition path.
I always wanted to be a boy. I was super jealous of my brother because he could go and do stuff that I wasn’t allowed to. My Irish twin sister was super girly, but also rough and tumble. As I hit puberty, I did become more girly. I dated, married, and had a child - and I’ve never questioned my choices. I think the female form is beautiful, but not to have sex with, I guess. That said, the current social environment is not what I had around me at the time I was growing up.

My 12 y.o. son‘s friend is also only 12, and now the parents put them on medication to pause puberty. The parents are gay, so I suspect this hits close to home for them in terms of acceptance. And just as a sidenote, this “pause” can do serious damage in terms of physical growth (in my humble opinion). I don’t know what it might do to their mental growth. This is a formative time of life and I don’t agree with medically tinkering unless it’s absolutely necessary and I don’t feel as though this is an absolutely necessary situation. I believe that it should wait until they’re 18 and able to make their own decisions legally. Another sidenote: this friend is as sharp as a tack and can be manipulative. There’s a decent amount of victim playing that was happening on the side, and I didn’t know about it until later.

The school counselors and therapists in general do push towards the transition, and actually in our neck of the woods, we pulled our son out of a regular public school- in part because it was made clear to us that if there was any indication of this desire, they would not inform the parents, and they would basically make their own decisions on how the child would be handled in school, instead of involving the parents. As others have mentioned - do be careful.

At eight years old, my kid wasn’t really flirting with anyone.. and neither were his classmates. Eight is extremely young to be making this kind of comment - and be taken seriously. They are WAY too young.

Your child may not have social media available to her at home, but I guarantee you she is seeing it at school, and the school is indoctrinating her; so are acquaintances.

Right now, it is absolutely cool to be different in that way. For example, during the school year, our kids give reports on various aspects of life and present them to class. My son’s friend gave a speech to his class about the trans way of life. That was in fifth grade when I was out of town. It was hidden under the generic topic of cultural diversity.
And this was before they even had the sex talk at school where they talk about gender differences- the one where they ask parents permission before they have the discussion. No one asked me permission about exposure to the trans wave of life and I didn’t care one way or another, but I would’ve liked to have been informed that he was being educated on this.

I know you’re paying attention, but pay closer attention ask about what happens at school- dig in about lunchtime and recess. If you can go to those PTA meetings, get a look at some of these other parents of kids that your kids are hanging out with. If your little one is as chatty as you think, you’re going to find out lots more than you know right now.
During the school year either I or my husband pick my son up every day and on the way home we have the same routine. I have 10 minutes of his undivided attention and I grill him. Once we get home, he can do whatever he wants for a half hour but during that car ride, I try and get as much as I can in terms of information. At eight years old, she should be a font of info for you.
Being supportive parents is all you really need to be right now, that, and protecting her from undue influence. I think as long as she knows you love her no matter what, it’ll work out.

Otto you picked a good place to vent. My daughter and me have lived this path sixty plus years and will continue to take each day one day at a time. Be true to your heart above all else and teach her how to love you as you love her.

I’ll take a stab at this. My 19.5 year old daughter came out as a junior in HS. To everyone’s relief, she is perfectly happy being a girl. That being said, she was always very tomboyish. I wasn’t surprised in the least when she told us. I simply couldn’t imagine her with a boy—-she is very capable and thought they were complete fools. No fascination there at all. Not at 8, not at 18.

Your daughter is 8. I think a lot of these kids think because they experience same-sex attraction that makes them either gay or trans. It might mean that, or it might not. Remember girls get to puberty ahead of the boys, which is why they run rings around them at that age. Your daughter is probably just getting ready to go down that slide.

I have discussed with my daughter and her partner when each knew they were gay. My daughter told me she knew in 6th grade. Her partner said she always knew. My daughter’s girlfriend’s parents are conservative and struggle with this issue, so it’s been difficult for her.

I too would be hesitant to jump on the gender-identity bandwagon. If your daughter is gay, and she may be, I think the best thing to do would be to try to make her comfortable in her own identity as a female and watch to see if it’s truly gender dysphoria or whether she’s simply trying to reconcile her sexuality with her gender. That’s going to take some time. But if she realizes it’s OK to be a girl who likes girls, she may feel less conflicted.

Anyway, my .02.