Wait until the local governments figure out that gas receipts will be going down, so no road tax revenue to keep the roads going for the E-Cars.

Imagine the look on the E drivers faces when they pass a law requiring a mileage tax or e-car tax

That's coming next.

Frankly if you can afford a $100,000 car you shouldn't be getting a tax break...

Taxes are about behavior modification.

It's not about whether or not someone can afford a $100k car. It's about the .gov wanting you to drive electric cars.

Similarly, the mortgage interest deduction isn't about giving people who pay interest on their loans a break. It's about the .gov encouraging people to borrow.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Wait until the local governments figure out that gas receipts will be going down, so no road tax revenue to keep the roads going for the E-Cars..

So long as petrol is <$4.00/gallon (currently $2.29/gallon here in Central Florida), these electric 'alternatives' will be little more than toys, making them all virtually irrelevant to road tax revenues.

You'd spend tens of thousands of dollars to save a few hundred bucks on your taxes? That doesn't make sense.

Attempted behavior modification is largely what's wrong with a majority of government.

Government should be more like effective Project Management... Transparent when it's done well. Not a boss nor a leader but a facilitator to help everyone else accomplish the mission... Pave the roads, secure the border, handle the very basic and absolute necessities, free the people and the market, and generally get the fuck out of the way, and let us go about the proverbial pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness as free as is literally possible, unencumbered by nonsense, and unbothered by any extraneous bullshit.

That's good government.

In such a model the very idea of tax incentives for electric vehicles would be as absurd and foreign as the suggestion to eat a shit sandwich each day for nice smelling breath.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
You'd spend tens of thousands of dollars to save a few hundred bucks on your taxes? That doesn't make sense.

Same people who pay $50K for a new pickup truck so they can move some furniture a few times a year.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Wait until the local governments figure out that gas receipts will be going down, so no road tax revenue to keep the roads going for the E-Cars.

Imagine the look on the E drivers faces when they pass a law requiring a mileage tax or e-car tax

That's coming next.

Frankly if you can afford a $100,000 car you shouldn't be getting a tax break...

They passed such a law that takes effect in CA on Jan 1. It's a flat e-car user tax of $100, IIRC plus an increased in the registration fee that everyone else will pay too.

The greenies are PO'd since they bought green to save the environment and now they're being taxed because the bought green.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Wait until the local governments figure out that gas receipts will be going down, so no road tax revenue to keep the roads going for the E-Cars..

So long as petrol is <$4.00/gallon (currently $2.29/gallon here in Central Florida), these electric 'alternatives' will be little more than toys, making them all virtually irrelevant to road tax revenues.

Its not $2.99 in CA, and the mindset in CA is different, that's why you see the majority of Tesla's being sold on the west coast and CA just raised it's gas tax $.12 a gallon.

The tax incentive isn't for the buyer, it's a rebate to the factory, without it Tesla crumbles.

quote:

The tax incentive isn't for the buyer, it's a rebate to the factory, without it Tesla crumbles.

Which is precisely why we have no business funneling tax dollars into it. Just as bad as bank bailouts, or "picking winners and losers", and even less necessary than banks...

Teslas eligibility for the rebate will end soon anyway as will gm. It's capped at 200k units per mfr.

We didn't get the full $7500 back, saw about 6k.

Wife has been driving a volt for 15 months and has used 53 gallons of gas with over 10k on the odometer. All of the gas was on trips, she doesn't use a drop throughout the week.

Our power bill actually went down because we switched to a time of use plan. It costs us 37.5c to charge full at night. That's good for 50 miles.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
The tax incentive isn't for the buyer, it's a rebate to the factory, without it Tesla crumbles.

I am totally aware of this, and make mo mistake, I'm completely against 'any' form of government subsidy like this. If Tesla or any of the others are to survive, they need to do it on their own dime. I just don't think electrics are going to represent anything more than a small minority of the vehicles on the roads for many years to come regardless the government subsidies offered.

And California is so far in the red, they'll use any opportunity, no matter how ridiculous or irrelevant, to raise taxes.

quote:

Originally posted by billnchristy:
Teslas eligibility for the rebate will end soon anyway as will gm. It's capped at 200k units per mfr.

The way Tesla's going with their production dilemmas, they may never reach 200k units.

I just find the situation where the same government (CA for example) is pushing taxpayer funded purchase rebates as an incentive for consumers to make a LEV vehicle purchase for "sustainability reasons" is also the same government that is finding out it's revenue from gasoline taxes are going to go down because of their taxfunding policy for alternative fuel vehicles.

Spending money to reduce tax revenue.... how much more governmental can you get.

Oh and it's the same government that won't allow new production of electricity from oil, gas, coal, but buys the power from out of state/country power plants using those fuels.

Somehow it's still green if you relocate the pollution you cause to another state.

quote:

Originally posted by billnchristy:
Teslas eligibility for the rebate will end soon anyway as will gm. It's capped at 200k units per mfr.

We didn't get the full $7500 back, saw about 6k.

Wife has been driving a volt for 15 months and has used 53 gallons of gas with over 10k on the odometer. All of the gas was on trips, she doesn't use a drop throughout the week.

Our power bill actually went down because we switched to a time of use plan. It costs us 37.5c to charge full at night. That's good for 50 miles.

That's pretty cool.

But what do you think it would've cost without the billing rate change? Do you know exactly how much juice it uses per month, to even be able to calculate it? Just curious.

quote:

Originally posted by billnchristy:
Teslas eligibility for the rebate will end soon anyway as will gm. It's capped at 200k units per mfr.

We didn't get the full $7500 back, saw about 6k.

Wife has been driving a volt for 15 months and has used 53 gallons of gas with over 10k on the odometer. All of the gas was on trips, she doesn't use a drop throughout the week.

Our power bill actually went down because we switched to a time of use plan. It costs us 37.5c to charge full at night. That's good for 50 miles.

I’ve been using a Leaf for a daily driver for 43 months. I leased it for the first 36 months and bought it at the end of the lease. So the $7500 rebate went to Nissan and they received the credit, not me. I’ve spent maybe $20-25 filling mine up since I’ve had it, and that was all public infrastructure costs once my Nissan provided card went TU after 24 months. I’ve got panels on the house so in the day it gets charged for free. My kwh plan (where they pay me less for my kwh I put on the grid then what they charge me for kwh from the grid) is free after 9pm so I usually just charge it at night. It sees the dealer/service once per year only for state inspection an in-cabin filter replacement. I’m there maybe half to 3/4 an hour. Other than that, rotate the tires. I use it for the commute to work, the gym, groceries, local stuff, etc. I’ve got a gas car I use for fun on weekends and some motorcycles. I haven’t spent over say $80-90 a month on gas since 2014 right before I had the electric in use. Work has 110 outlets but I rarely use them because it’s slow as hell and I’ve got L2 at home so 97+% of the time the only place I fuel is in the garage.

If you were to add up all the electric cars sold in the US say in 2016 and multiply the rebate out you’d find that the oil and gas companies receive way more than that in tax incentives, billions. Those tax breaks benefit all of us as well as the companies receiving them via lower costs at the pump. Oil and gas are heavily subsidized by .gov.
So I don’t know, I’d maybe watch some of the extreme finger pointing for fear of being labeled a hypocrite.

Instead of electric cars, I would like to see more Diesel powered cars on USA roadways.

Diesel fuel can be made from anything that can be turned into an oily substance......to include all the cooking oils that goes into landfills.

The Diesel exhaust particles problem is a non issue with better exhaust filtering.

^ Knowing actual cost of ownership and use is what's useful, and that picture is incomplete as currently described. Can you fill in the details, do that math, etc? Those panels and setup weren't free. Are they older than 43mos? How much were they? How paid off are they? Were there rebates on it, too? All of this must be factored in to get to real costs, along with those lease payments and the buy out. What does it *really* cost you? what did you really save, or not, versus a regular car? No one ever seems to share all that.

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
You'd spend tens of thousands of dollars to save a few hundred bucks on your taxes? That doesn't make sense.

No, it’s a tax credit. Meaning it would literally reduce what I owe on taxes by $7,500. So I would be saving $7,500, not “a few hundred”.

We are not talking about a tax deduction, as you’re alluding to. We’re talking about a tax credit. Big difference.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
^ Knowing actual cost of ownership and use is what's useful, and that picture is incomplete as currently described. Can you fill in the details, do that math, etc? Those panels and setup weren't free. Are they older than 43mos? How much were they? How paid off are they? Were there rebates on it, too? All of this must be factored in to get to real costs, along with those lease payments and the buy out. What does it *really* cost you? what did you really save, or not, versus a regular car? No one ever seems to share all that.

Thanks.

Should I post everything I ate today, my tax returns, yearly salary,... All so some more people can hate, generalize, stereotype, and be hypocrites? Every time you fill up your vehicle with gasoline it is subsidized and that’s not new. That’s what makes some of the bitching completely hypocritical. One tax subsidy is good, another evil. Otay.

Sorry I’m not gonna spell out everything and wrap a bow around it for you. Since you’ve been so kind I’ll give you some highlights and that’s about it. Be glad you’re getting anything. Car all in, 19k. That’s my total out of pocket costs and I got it new, loaded, SL w/ Bose, the highest trim they offered. I bought it at end of lease and put a 6 year bumper to bumper warranty on it from Nissan, Nissan backed, not third party, that started the day I bought it from them in April, not when I first got the car. I knew it would be cheaper to lease first compared to buying it from them at the onset. 19k is my down, lease payments, what I bought the car for from them, and the warranty, or all in. I’ve replaced the in cabin air filter twice since I’ve had it, had it inspected per state requirements twice, and put a new set of tires on it as I’m quite frivolous with the right foot. It’s fun to bust some ass from lights too.

My panels, that’s completely complicated. Azimuth, geographic location in the country as that affects daylight, real estate on your roof available for panel installation, which direction the roof faces. Quite complicated and few are gonna write up an essay to satisfy some kind stranger on the internet giving them the stink eye
It’s actually quite complicated. The great thing is the panels are stronger than the shingles on my roof. I’ve had the roof ruined by hail, replaced by my roofer, while the panels didn’t sustain an inch of damage.

Straight dollar figures the panels save me 4 figures per year, all in, low 4 figures. As time goes on and kwh rates go up I’m flatlined in cost so my savings just go up over time. They’ll never decrease as I put the array up when natural gas was dirt cheap which directly affects kwh/grid costs. I started saving money the day the city signed off on the installation and the switch was flipped on. Go ask arcwelder on here about it. He has a solar array as well. Maybe if you are nicer he’ll help you out. Or you can just do your own work and google fu. Panels are complicated and need an evaluation by a reputable company.

My savings in fuel or gasoline costs per year, also low 4 figures. Monday-Friday I do not use a drop of gasoline akin to Bill’s wife above. Weekend, different story.

It’s the combo meal of both that yield the real dollar savings which I happily or stupidly don’t save yet and spend on my hobbies. Basically the savings fund my hobbies while I’m renovating the house because without those savings the hobbies would stop. That was the whole point for me, money. The side benefits have been making heads explode, busting stereotypes, and after the hurricane, not worrying about gas while my whole area turned into The Road Warrior.

We figured around $25 a month prior to changing plans. If you did a full charge every day it would be about 38 a month. Wife drives roughly 1000 a month. That's assuming 16kw, the battery lets you use 14 so with loses that's a fair number. She probably only uses 5-6kw a day.

240v charger was $379, I installed myself. You can get rebate for pro install.

Tessa is at 140k in us, 250k worldwide.

 
Wickenburg is Tesla-ready.