I’ve always wanted to add a solar system here, but with power at only 8 cents/kWh I can’t justify it.

My mom spent 21k and installed a solar system for her central Florida home.

The power company still supplies power to her house for a few outlet's (AC, 2 or 3 outside outlets for high energy drain devices like power washer, and back up charger for no sun )

Overall she has saved money, she didn't buy them from the power company she went with a solar outfit from AZ the most expensive part was the batteries, which need tonbe changed out about every 10 years...

quote:

Originally posted by VBVAGUY:
Everyone thank you for sharing your experiences and information. I have listed some of the questions I will be asking with my father when we have the meeting later this week. God Bless !!!
[/LIST]

Add - are there any state law requirements on homeowners with solar installed, for instance in FL your liability minimums are increased if you have the panels, your homeowners insurance is going to go up...

In Florida, for example, systems over 10 kW in size require liability insurance of $1 million dollars. It’s not uncommon for a residential system to be larger than 10 kW, so this liability requirement may dissuade homeowners from sizing their system larger than 10 kW.


Utilities fight solar here, the environment for putting solar on isn't exactly consumer friendly like it is in D controlled climate concerned states like CA, MA et al where they a have put solar requirements on utilities.

So we don't get all the cash back benefits that others state residents receive.

I'm still looking into to it as an alternative.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/0...ida-solar-power.html

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

Frankly, if individual homeowners can't have a tax break or subsidy, why should anyone?

I agree which is why I said I'm not knocking anyone that has done it. My only point is it isn't financially viable if it requires a 65% contribution of other peoples' money to make it work.

It doesn't "require" it. Various states, and the feds, have offered financial incentive to encourage it. This doesn't at all mean it is "required." As I pointed out, a shit ton of other companies and industries get great big piles of tax breaks etc. from uncle sugar.... are all of those businesses not viable?

C'mon.

So we had the meeting and here are the questions I asked and their answers. God Bless !!! :

• Who owns the system? Is this lease, own, or rent to own? The home owner owns it outright from the beginning.
  
  
• If someone other than the home owner owns the system, what happens if the home owner wants to sell the home? We own the complete system so we can do as we please if we decide to sell the home.
  
  
• How much is the system? The system suggested for the home is approx a 10.7K watt @ $45K before tax credits and incentives. We were also told that by law in Virginia it does NOT raise the property tax.
  
  
• Is there any cost to the home owner? Yes if the system is purchased using a loan. Also the system recommended is suppose to generate approx 65% efficiency of the power so if the average monthly power bill is $240, the bill should drop down to around $84 a month.
  
  
• Is there any incentives, discounts, etc. from government, state, etc? 30% from the US Federal Government which ends at the end of 2019. Next year and each succeeding year it will be dropping.
  
  
• Is there any warranty and if so how long? Ion Solar is the company that is selling and installing and they use Tier 1 solar panels with a 25 Year performance Warranty
  
  
• Who is responsible for maintenance and repairs? Ion Solar will make all the repairs and maintenance needed during the 25 years. If any damage during a hurricane, hail storm, etc. this will be covered under the home insurance. We were told by law in the state of Virginia that adding solar panel system will not increase the insurance rates. We also saw videos of some homes with solar panels installed on homes that survived a Cat 4 hurricane and the homes with the solar panels were still intact many looked like they had no damage. Solar panels looked to have protected the roofs.
  
  
• How long do the batteries last? Any warranty on batteries? Cost of replacement batteries? This is NOT a battery storage system. However it can be added but not yet recommended by them as the batteries are very expensive. Batteries can be added later and was told that battery prices are expected to go down hopefully in 2 to 3 years.
  
  
• Panels can get hot, how does this affect the roof, does roof get hot too increasing AC usage? We were told that the roof is actually cooler with the Solar panels on.
  
  
• During a power outage can the system be used to output power like a generator? If you add the battery storage which currently is $$$
  
  
• Where is the DC to AC conversion box installed at? The panel outside the house or inside. If inside how much space is needed for everything? It is located outside. The current analog meter will be replace with a new digital one. Everything is located outside the home.
  
  
• When selling back electricity back to DP, does the owner receive cash, credit, etc.? Credit that accumulates, rolls over each month, never expires
  
  
• What is the rate of the amount given back to the owner is it standard rate that they are normally charged or is it a discounted rate and if so how much is it? We were told a 1 to 1 same amount that is purchased from Dominion Power is what is credited back to the home owner. Unlike some other states that discount the rate credited back to the home owner.
  
  
• Are there any examples of homes in the neighborhood? There were many several in the area just within the last year from the map they showed. Within a 1 mile area of the home, it looked like there were at least 10 and within a 5 mile are over 30 homes. They could not give out names or addresses however looking at the map I believe one of the homes looks to be down the street from my father's home.
  
  

Also we were told that the panels that they install are not daisy chained like many other installers use, so that if one panel were to go out it does NOT affect the rest of the system and can still be used until the bad panel is replaced.


Also little tidbit, Oceana Naval Air Station has their own Solar Farm that can be seen from the back gate entrance. We were told that if some how the Naval base were to lose power from Dominion Power they would have enough power to run most of the base using the power generated by the Solar Farm.

https://navysustainability.dod...t-Sheet_July2016.pdf

This message has been edited. Last edited by: VBVAGUY,

Thanks for the follow-up. good stuff.

but....

quote:

During a power outage can the system be used to output power like a generator? If you add the battery storage which currently is $$$

But would the solar system actually be charging the batteries when the power outage is occurring???? (charging during the day, obviously)

I kind of think the batteries might not be charged during a power outage which makes the system less useful IMHO. In other words, it's not an emergency power source for when SHTF or TEOTWAWKI scenarios ---- if that matters to you at all.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
Thanks for the follow-up. good stuff.

but....

quote:

During a power outage can the system be used to output power like a generator? If you add the battery storage which currently is $$$

But would the solar system actually be charging the batteries when the power outage is occurring???? (charging during the day, obviously)

I kind of think the batteries might not be charged during a power outage which makes the system less useful IMHO. In other words, it's not an emergency power source for when SHTF or TEOTWAWKI scenarios ---- if that matters to you at all.

You need batts for off grid power. The inverters will shut down as soon as they see loss of utility power. This is because they bug the system to the mains prior to main circuit breaker. If they were out putting power then it would be dangerous to linemen and anyone near downed lines.

35 panels. 8.9kw system.

Leased for 20 years. I can buy after 7 years (I will). Had them on for almost 5 years now (thanks arc). Started saving me money the minute the city let me switch the system on. During the winter my saving is almost zero, but our winter is 3-4 months. 8-9 months out of the year I save money. Lease payment + kWh, I save 4 figures per year.

With a lease, the company I pay for the panels has to fix, maintain, repair, etc. I didn’t pay for installation, don’t pay for maintenance, and my homeowners insurance did not go up. My property tax didn’t go up either. So some of the bullshit you’ve read in this thread is just that. It’s people in the peanut gallery pulling things from their orifices.

My roof faces in the optimum position (south) and the pitch of my roof, and azimuth were perfect for a solar panel installation. It’s worked out very well for me financially. But I’ve had to listen to the bitching since they were up from various people in person and online that are uneducated about such things. Apparently to them power via the sun is some left wing bullshit or a conspiracy. Nah, I just like using our star to power my house, and save money doing so.

They are stronger than my shingles on the roof. Last hail storm, I had to replace all the exposed shingles. The half of the roof where the panels are, the shingles were in mint condition. Solar panels had no damage. So again the solar panels are stronger than the roof they sit on. Further benefit is the solar panels shade half my entire roof from the sun so less HVAC cost.

Extremely pleased with my installation and decision. I followed arc’s advice and did a whole lot of research prior and went with the same company he did. The panels are beating out their initial estimate so they have surpassed the kWh generation they were supposed to, year after year. I got the better end of the stick for once. I doubled down, also, and at first leased, then purchased outright, a cheap electric vehicle for a daily driver that I charge off the panels/sun. I turned the 4 figure annual kWh savings into another 4 figures in savings of gasoline use. I only use gasoline for fun/pleasure/weekends. Necessity driving is all done in the donkey (EV).

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
My property tax didn’t go up either. So some of the bullshit you’ve read in this thread is just that. It’s people in the peanut gallery pulling things from their orifices.

California doesn't offer a 100% tax credit for solar power, and neither does NY. I don't know about the rest of the US, but why don't you stick to something you know instead of pulling bullsht out of your ass?

https://bestcompany.com/solar/...lifornia-solar-guide

https://solar-to-the-people.co...perty-tax-exemption/


OP, sounds like a good deal where you are. I'd go for It.

I have resurrected this older thread because I have been getting at least three to four people a month banging on my door trying to sell solar.
I live in a gated community in central Florida that has a sign on the gate no trespassing/soliciting but they come in anyway.
Some have told me the system is free. When I ask how they tell me my power bill will be 0, yes 0 and I use that money to pay for the system.
One told me the system would be installed at no cost to me and when I asked how, they had no answer just a stupid look on their face like how dare you question me.
I live in a community with a large population of people that English is a second language and they take advantage of that.

So from what I have read so far, for the most part stay away from these people and contact a solar company my self.
Make sure the saving is worth the price of the system.
Own vs lease.
How the system will be installed and the quality of the panels.
Who maintains the system if there is a problem.
Tax incentives/rebates form the power company.
How much does the power company give as a credit per kilowatt and is that rate going to change (up or down)in the future.
Additional cost ie insurance to cover storm damage or liability/upgrade to the homes electrical system.

There was a lot of great information in this post and I am wondering how much if any thing has changed.

Thanks

Your credit from the power company is usually at the wholesale rate .

My perspective on net:

1. You still pay a flat fee every month (say, $15 for 'distribution' fees).
2. Any excess is given to the utility for free
3. The benefit is the 'free' electricity you get once you're past your break even point.

One thing I've heard - if you buy, generally size the panels to consumption. If you lease, they will oversize the panels and leverage every bit of effective panel space. They are basically using your real estate to generate as much power as they can (cost effectively).

We just sold our house that had a 4-panel 1.5kw system on the roof.
It was already installed when we moved in, so we never really knew just how much benefit it really gave us.

We had gone from a 2200 sq ft house to the 4k sq ft house and didn't have an appreciable increase in elec bills, even with running a pool.
We do take advantage of the plan that allow 'free' power overnight, so we ran the pool then.

Never had any problems with the panels, but didn't have a lot of knowledge on their operation/effectiveness.

We're going to look at getting a generator installed first before we look into solar on the new house. It'll give us some time to see how the utility costs are going to run here before making the decision.

I had Tesla's panels installed about 11 months ago. My repayment period is between 3.5 to 5.5 years now, depending on my consumption (more I consume, up to the max panel production, the more I save).

The net metering programs are updated periodically. They were more favorable in the past. My current net metering program allows me to sell excess power to the utility at "wholesale" prices. If you install in the future, your net metering program may be different.

Panels installs vary widely in price. Go the cheapest you can, it has the biggest impact on repayment period.

Looked at doing this over and over, and in FL can't figure out a way to financially make it a win. At best it's trading petro dollars for solar dollars, and at best breaking even.

The only real advantage I can see is it's a hedge on future fuel prices driving up home power costs.

Buddy owns a hedge fund, he rightly predicted that one day your power bill will be more than your mortgage, that's probably not far off...

Outside of that with all the old banter and monkeys flying out of butts, you really have to do the homework based on your location, what someone in CA or MA does won't be the same return in FL.

Those states have generous tax breaks, because they tax the hell out of everyone, and different buy back rate deals with power companies as well as third party market power selling.

Also the tax discount is simply a paper discount, you still pay the full rate for your solar, and the federal tax kickback only works if you have taxes or pay enough taxes to get that money back.

Retirees may never see it or take years to recover the federal 27% tax credit. If you already have enough tax credits to max out, adding solar won't help. Again, you have to look at everything, state laws, insurance requirements, property tax rules, buy back power rates, income tax position....

In FL your best bet if you want solar is to buy a house with it already on the home...

For what it's worth. If you also need a new roof. It could swing a decision your way.

Because if you replace your roof to put panels on. You are eligible for %26 Federal tax credit on the panels AND the roof. I severely needed a new roof. Math worked out for me.

Edit to add: Also financing was @ %1.4 so it was darn near free money.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
2. Any excess is given to the utility for free.

You're not getting paid/credited for the excess?

Everyone I know in the neighborhood is getting credit for whatever they feed back into the grid. That is what covers their usage at night

As far I can see, the credit is pennies on the dollar. It's so low to be effectively zero - rounding error amounts relative to all other costs and prices. Credits don't enter into the value equation.

The credits are nothing. You do solar to avoid paying consumption rates, not for the credit you supposedly get for excess.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
As far I can see, the credit is pennies on the dollar. It's so low to be effectively zero - rounding error amounts relative to all other costs and prices. Credits don't enter into the value equation.

The credits are nothing. You do solar to avoid paying consumption rates, not for the credit you supposedly get for excess.

Yes.

Using made numbers for this example; from what I understand in California, if your system generates excess electricity (because you’re at work) at 4pm, when demand is highest and the utility company sells at $1.00 / KWh but at 4am they sell electricity at $0.10 / KWh, the resident gets credited at the lowest rate.

Also, the resident will never receive a check, only credit. This is because the resident is not a licensed energy producer nor broker to sell.

At least that’s how it was explained to me.

For the central Florida members, if you have Duke, there is a minimum monthly charge even if your bill is $0