Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Money won is sweeter than money earned  |
I have a question how much weight a floor can handle. I have a normal house with a basement and I have a gun safe in one of the closets. My wife has said i gun take over the whole closet ( I much of it already). I was wondering if I could put a second safe about the same size next to the one I already have. I am going to slide the other one down. See Picture: Would two of these be too much weight for the floor. I was thinking no. But figured I would throw this out there to someone who knows more than me to be sure.  _________________________ Einstein defines insanity as "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" | ||
|
Void Where Prohibited |
It's hard to say without knowing what's underneath - is the closet right over the main supporting beam of the house, or right near it? If not, unless you can add some reinforcement in the basement, I would say don't do it. My wife makes the same complaint about it taking up all the space in the closet. "If Gun Control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome" - Cam Edwards | |||
|
| Member |
More info needed. What is the size, span and spacing of the floor joists? Do they run parallel or at right angles to the front of the safe? What will be the weight of each safe loaded? Sounds like it may be getting a bit hefty. | |||
|
| Bought a 239 magazine for $10, got banned for free. |
Probably too heavy given the safe is above the basement. When I had my house built I had the floor joists in the gun room constructed on 8 inch centers, no problem. | |||
|
safe & sound |
Our loose rule of thumb is 1,500 pounds. That safe is probably close to 600, so two of them has you at 1,200. If you're storing 500 pounds of ammo, you're likely pushing your luck. | |||
|
| Member |
What, generally speaking, is in the safe? Long guns only? Full ammo cans? Packed full? If it is long guns, without exceeding designed capacity, that is one thing. A dozen full cans of ammo and weapons, that is different. If you can get under it and see the joists, that is a good start. If a few joists would support both safes, that is the biggest concern. If each safe is supported by different joists, this is better. If you can reinforce the joists, that would help. More joists the same size, paralleling the existing ones, sharing the load, would be ideal. You could sister the existing joists - ie - attach new joists tight against the existing ones. I would use glue and screws to attach them. Some just nail them together. Again, best strength is without holes in any joists. If holes need to be made, make them as small as possible and center them between top and bottom. | |||
|
| Member |
I did reinforce my floor joist before installing my safe. If you have a basement over the closet, as you say, I would reinforce the joists as well as add a post under the joist down to the floor. Better "safe" than sorry. It is easier to do that now than to fix something later. I do not regret doing that myself. My safe builder told me my safe was close to 1500lbs unloaded. NRA Life Endowment member Tri-State Gun collectors Life Member | |||
|
| Money won is sweeter than money earned |
The safe holds some long rifles and mostly handguns. The main I-Beam runs about 2 feet in front of the safe door and runs the same way as the length of the closet. I know its not a great pic, but here is where the safe sits from the basement ceiling. Directly straight up from the picture.  _________________________ Einstein defines insanity as "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" | |||
|
Essayons |
@Rick Perry: the photo above ^^^^^ is a good start to answering your question. We just need a little more info: 1. What is the depth of your joists? Are they 2x6, or are they 2x8, or are they 2x10? Can't tell from the photo. Measure with a tape and let us know. 2. What is the span over which the joists run? Measure with a tape and let us know. 3. Where in the joist span is the safe load? For example, is it two feet from the end of the joist, four feet from the end of the joist, where? Post this info, and next time I pass this way I'll run some numbers for you to let you know the maximum safe load you can put on the floor. Thanks, Sap | |||
|
| Money won is sweeter than money earned |
The joists are 2x10. Not sure exactly question 2 - The joists run the length of the basement (East & West) and there is 14 inches between each joists. Then the main support I-Beam runs right down the center of the basement (north & South). The safe right now is sitting over 2 joists. So 2 feet in front of the safe is the main support I-Beam. For example the safe faces south and 2 feet from the front door is the main support. Sorry - Not a carpenter. Hope that helps. I appreciate all the help guys! _________________________ Einstein defines insanity as "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" | |||
|
| Trust me, I am a Professional Engineer.  |
What is the distance from the basement wall to the I beam in the middle of the basement? | |||
|
| Money won is sweeter than money earned |
16 ft. _________________________ Einstein defines insanity as "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" | |||
|
Member |
I doubt it. I hired a mason and a carpenter to reinforce the floor before I brought in the safe, which would otherwise be too heavy for a normal floor. If you're storing ammunition alongside the safe, then you would have even more need to reinforce the floor. Whatever you do don't cheap out and strain your joists, or your walls and floors might start buckling and shearing, but I'm not a tradesman or engineer. That's what I did just by looking at it with some common sense. I figured you shouldn't put a honda civic or a tundra in your office without a little reinforcement. If you're handy you could probably do it yourself. I am handy, but I don't trust myself in those two departments when it comes to the structural integrity of my house. Lover of the US Constitution Wile E. Coyote School of DIY Disaster | |||
|
Member |
Does the safe have a flat floor or is it raised? Calculate the number of square inches actually touching the floor. Then using the anticipated total weight, safe weight plus contents, determine the psi (pounds per square inch). Then look up what floor support is needed for that static weight. . “Leave the Artillerymen alone, they are an obstinate lot. . .” – Napoleon Bonaparte http://poundsstudio.com/ | |||
|
| Essayons |
@Rick Perry: OK, using the info you've provided, to wit: -- Span is 16 ft -- Joists are 2x10 -- Joist spacing is 16" center to center (~14-1/2 inches between joists) -- Photo shows reasonably good lumber, probably Douglas Fir grade No. 1 with moisture content less than 19% and maximum allowable flexural stress in a repetitive member type assembly of 1,750 pounds per square inch If your house is built to code, your floor probably has a design uniform load capacity of 40 lb/square foot plus some safety factor. Assuming the four conditions listed above are true, I calculate your floor's actual (factor of safety = 1) uniform load capacity at 73.11 lb/square foot. That means your total combined dead load and floor live load could go as high as 73.11 lb/square foot before your joists begin to fail. That implies that you have a factor of safety of about 1.8 in your floor design. Assuming the following: -- You limit your combined dead and live floor loads to no more than the design capacity of 40 lb/square foot (that's all loads, dead and live, other than the safe), -- You locate your safe's point load no more than 2 feet from where the joists cross your center steel stringer, which if I understand your description above correctly is what you are doing, -- You have adequate cross-bracing between your joists (Note that your photo shows no cross bracing at all! You might want to put some in!), -- Your center steel stringer's upper flange is sufficiently wide that your 2x10 joists have adequate bearing area there so as not to cause a wood grain crushing type failure where the joist bears on the steel flange. If all the above is true, then your 2x10 joists on a 16' span at 16" c-to-c should have sufficient capacity to handle the code-required uniformly distributed design load of 40-lb/sq ft plus a point load at the described location of no more than 807 pounds on each joist directly supporting it. If your safe, fully loaded with whatever you're putting into it, weighs less than 807 pounds/joist directly supporting it, then your floor should handle it without breaking. If, as you've described, there are two joists directly supporting the safe, then the safe and its contents would have to weigh less than 1,614 lbs with the safe located so that half of that load is distributed equally to each joist. When I say joists "breaking", I mean the joists will begin to show signs of failure, probably by horizontal shear. You should notice other signs before that happens, like floor sagging, plaster/sheet rock cracking or buckling, joists twisting (preventing that is what the horizontal bracing is for), and so forth. BUT: Putting that much load on your floor will use up all of your floor's design structural capacity; in other words your floor under that maximum allowable calculated load will have a factor of safety of one, and you will be living on the edge of a floor failure. There are a bunch of things you could do to strengthen your floor if you are not comfortable living with a unitary factor of safety: -- Install cross bracing, as mentioned above, and -- Sister the the two joists beneath your safe and the joists immediately to the left and right sides of your safe's location (four joists in all) with 2x10s, or -- Add 3/8" thick steel plates to the sides of the two joists beneath your safe's location (16' x 9-1/4" x 3/8" A36 steel plates glued & bolted on the joist sides -- not as hard or as expensive to do as you might think, but will likely require some on-site welding as you aren't likely to find 16' long plate), or -- Install a load-bearing wall directly below where your safe is located to support your joists there by reducing the joist span to zero beneath the load bearing wall, or -- Install a column below the safe's location. Please note these facts, too: -- We've ignored the load capacity of your center steel stringer which receives the floor loads from your 2x10 joists and delivers them to your basement walls or to intermediate columns. It probably has lots of excess capacity, but to be sure we ought to look at it, too. Is it a wide-flange rolled steel shape? How big? Does it have any intermediate supporting columns, or does it span the entire length of your basement? What is its span, and how far from a support is the added load of the safe located? -- We haven't considered your plywood sub-floor (other than to assume it's not stiff enough to effectively distribute the safe's weight to any joists other than the ones directly beneath the safe). If your safe is on feet, as opposed to a smooth flat bottom, and depending on how thick your plywood sub-floor is, then if the feet aren't directly above the joists you could get a punch-through failure where the feet punch holes in the sub-floor. Hope that's helpful.This message has been edited. Last edited by: SapperSteel, Thanks, Sap | |||
|
| Money won is sweeter than money earned |
SapperSteel - Thank you very much for taking the time to provide me with a TON of useful information. This is a great post! I couldn't ask for more. Much appreciated. I'll let you know how I make out. Thanks again.. _________________________ Einstein defines insanity as "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" | |||
|
Semper Fi - 1775 |
Example 232.23 of why I’ll never understand why some folks choose to “flame out”. The knowledge here that is shared for the fee of nothing more than a “thank you” is absolutely amazing. ___________________________ All it takes...is all you got. ____________________________ For those who have fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
© SIGforum 2025