SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    UPS for connectivity during power outage?
Page 1 2 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
UPS for connectivity during power outage? Login/Join 
Member
Picture of konata88
posted
If there is a neighborhood power outage, in general, is comm connectivity to the house still functional? For example, cable modem internet service for the house remains available? Or do these things generally go down as well with power outages?

For example, if I have a power outage but my cable modem / router is powered via a UPS, will I still have internet connectivity (say, both wifi/lan as well as internet phone)? Or more than likely not?

If it's likely that I could maintain connectivity, then I might get a UPS for the modem (laptop battery could last most of the day). If connectivity likely lost, there is no point in the UPS.




"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - B.Franklin
"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy
 
Posts: 11086 | Location: In the gilded cage | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I have had a ups for my cable modem and router for a number of years. My internet provider is Spectrum.

No issues with internet connectivity during power outages. The ups is not large, sized for this use. Even though it is small it keeps system up for hours.
 
Posts: 896 | Registered: June 16, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
posted Hide Post
Yes they will keep you up albeit for a short time.
Suited well for very short term brown outs or blips as you will but for long term power loss you will need a generator.
UPS's pair very well in those cases.
 
Posts: 20591 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of konata88
posted Hide Post
Great! Thanks. Power is usually restored w/in a few hours. I can generally live w/o the power except I need comms for work. Sounds like a UPS for the modem / router would be useful.

Now to look into UPS and figure out what to buy. Need to learn about UPS features I guess - not sure what to look for.




"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - B.Franklin
"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy
 
Posts: 11086 | Location: In the gilded cage | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of SigSentry
posted Hide Post
I would think you would need to maintain power to the cable modem, assuming the signal itself has its own power (like old landlines). I just picked up a solar generator that has a simulated UPS from Bluetti (eb3a). I have an Ecoflow River Pro with simulated UPS that plays nice with my equipment. The EB3A seems like a good unit. Other reviews have mentioned the "pass thru" sine wave is not the cleanest but probably within tolerances.

Edit: that's a quick UPS relay. Not even a flicker.

BLUETTI Portable Power Station EB3A, 268Wh LiFePO4 Battery Backup w/ 2 600W (1200W Surge) AC Outlets, Recharge from 0-80% in 30 Min., Solar Generator for Outdoor Camping (Solar Panel Optional) https://a.co/d/0VEJ6AK

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SigSentry,
 
Posts: 2861 | Registered: May 30, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Unflappable Enginerd
Picture of stoic-one
posted Hide Post
I have 7 UPS's in my house powering various pieces of electronics. I look at them more as a sacrificial power protection device than an actual battery backup. I've lost several of them to lightning while the downstream devices survived. I always buy the higher end APC UPS's with higher Joule ratings, no knockoffs, and I always use models that use the common batteries/packs, which typically last 3 years(ish).

My computer, cable modem, and router are on a rather large one that can power them for a good bit. A Comcast friend of mine told me the head-end amps for the cable coming down my street has a power ride-through time of ~30 minutes, and that's pretty much what I've observed as well. If it's not just a localized power outage that lasts more than ~30 minutes, my cable goes down. No TV, no data... YMMV on how long local services stay up.


__________________________________

NRA Benefactor
I lost all my weapons in a boating, umm, accident.
http://www.aufamily.com/forums/
 
Posts: 5241 | Location: Headland, AL | Registered: April 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by konata88:

Now to look into UPS and figure out what to buy. Need to learn about UPS features I guess - not sure what to look for.



Essentially there are three types (for general use):

Stand-By: the cheapest UPS's in the market ~ around $100 +/- or less.
Usually the smaller units, lots of plastic, may or may not have replaceable batteries.

Line-Interactive: Better electronics, replicable batteries, larger capacity, better response for computers and sensitive equipment, more expansive than stand-by's ~ $125 and up.

Server-UPS: similar to Line-interactive with better electronics, control and communications features, even larger capacities and even more expensive ~ $ circa $350 +.

Note: most all are lead acid but some are Lithium Ion.
The LI are great but much more expensive, much lighter and the batteries last longer (5~7 yrs).
Batteries on LA will need to be replaced every 2 to 3 years ~ sometimes longer.

APC is my primary UPS but other decent brands > Eaton (they own APC), Triplite, CyberPower and others.

You will need to determine the power consumption/use to determine size and run time.

Low end or small is 350 to 500VA good for low power devices like routers or switches - run time may vary but could be a couple hours.
Computer use would need a min of 1000VA or more.

Don't count on hours of interrupted service as it is on a stop gap - a generator is better for that.

Good Luck
 
Posts: 20591 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bolt Thrower
Picture of Voshterkoff
posted Hide Post
Depends on what takes out the power, will it also effect communication lines? Around my area the main threat is wind storms taking down trees. In such an example both power and data lines are coming down.
 
Posts: 9554 | Location: Woodinville, WA | Registered: March 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Itchy was taken
Picture of scratchy
posted Hide Post
I use a APC Back-UPS 550 for the cable modem and switch, and a Back-UPS 1500 for the PC.


_________________
This space left intentionally blank.
 
Posts: 3756 | Location: Colorado | Registered: August 24, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thank you
Very little
Picture of HRK
posted Hide Post
Like has been said, multiple levels, the more you spend the more time you get.

Remember things like monitors, CPU's on the UPS are going to reduce time. You may put one on the Cable Modem and any router you have and separate on the CPU/Monitor/Phone.

Your other option is to make sure the PC is on a larger UPS and then connect it to your unlimited cell hot spot for internet connectivity, especially on longer down times as the outside delivery may be interrupted by no power supply to the cable system.

One backs up the other.



 
Posts: 19501 | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
We have UPSs on the fiber terminal and the modem/router that will keep those devices going for an hour or so (if the ISP stays up). We typically go for years between outages of more than a few minutes, so we haven't had a problem yet.

We also were gifted a RING Alarm Pro system that includes a router, battery backup, and a cellular connection as backup if the ISP fails. It can be equipped with 24 hours worth of batteries, but I would have the generator running way before then.

We had an outage of about 40 minutes one afternoon earlier in the week (so hopefully we're good for the rest of the year). I got to see how everything worked together and found one flaw. The desktop PC is on the same UPS with the fiber terminal. I had (a long time ago) set up the UPS to hibernate the PC after two minutes of outage, probably thinking to maximize runtime for the terminal if I had left the PC on.

I was using the PC to find information on the outage, when the UPS dumped the power to the PC and the terminal. I thought the battery in the UPS had failed, but I had failed to ever test the system to see how it would work. I have since updated the software controlling the UPS and changed some options, but I think the point is test your system to see if it will work like you hope it will.

The RING Alarm Pro did continue to have access to the internet via it's cellular link, so that was a good test.
 
Posts: 1206 | Location: WI | Registered: July 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Caribou gorn
Picture of YellowJacket
posted Hide Post
We run personal machines on APC1350 at work... probably similar for the network server. Just home devices (modem/router/PC) will probably work for 6-8 hours on the 1350 but we really just treat them as fail-safes. If things go out, we finish up tasks and save and shut down.



I'm gonna vote for the funniest frog with the loudest croak on the highest log.
 
Posts: 10011 | Location: Marietta, GA | Registered: February 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of konata88
posted Hide Post
Thanks guys! I'll look into the suggestions above.




"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - B.Franklin
"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy
 
Posts: 11086 | Location: In the gilded cage | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of konata88
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by HRK:
Like has been said, multiple levels, the more you spend the more time you get.

Remember things like monitors, CPU's on the UPS are going to reduce time. You may put one on the Cable Modem and any router you have and separate on the CPU/Monitor/Phone.

Your other option is to make sure the PC is on a larger UPS and then connect it to your unlimited cell hot spot for internet connectivity, especially on longer down times as the outside delivery may be interrupted by no power supply to the cable system.

One backs up the other.


Good point - may need two. one for modem. one for monitors. laptop can survive on its battery for the day.




"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - B.Franklin
"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy
 
Posts: 11086 | Location: In the gilded cage | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
blame canada
Picture of AKSuperDually
posted Hide Post
We've been running UPS' on everything vital for a long time. At our previous house which also housed our offices, we could run our router/modem for nearly a week on the UPS we had it connected to. I haven't tested the new setup at our office, we now lease in a professional building in the middle of town, and have only had a small power blip once in the previous 11 months of tenancy here. I'm confident we could keep running for a few hours though. I've setup our camera system on one also, and it got inadvertently tested (child unplugged it) a few months ago. It lasted 5 days.

I've never had the internet go out during a power failure, YET. We're with a new company now, so I'm not confident if that would continue...but I share a connection with two senators and a governor...so probably the internet won't be out for long if it does go out.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The trouble with our Liberal friends...is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan, 1964
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon will just take a shit on the board, strut around knocking over all the pieces and act like it won.. and in some cases it will insult you at the same time." DevlDogs55, 2014 Big Grin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

www.rikrlandvs.com
 
Posts: 13634 | Location: On the mouth of the great Kenai River | Registered: June 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of konata88
posted Hide Post
I'm not an expert so still figuring things out. What I'm seeing:

1. Modem + router: seems like about 60W each so I'm guessing I need about 150W output
2. APC UPS seems like I would only get about 30-60 min of power. I think I want 4 hours (power outages generally last 30 min to 3 hours). https://www.apc.com/us/en/prod...ema-outlets-4-surge/

So, not sure a UPS is going to cut it for me unless I find a different model. But like smschulz pointed out, perhaps for my needs, a generator is a better fit.

I peeked a Generac offerings and a 7.5KW generator is $2000. Price is kind of overkill. At that price, I'd probably just drive into the office. But if I pursued this, I think I would have to size the generator for at least the fridges. If this is automatic, then perhaps the AC as well (since the AC could kick on if I'm not home). https://www.generac.com/all-pr...998-8-circuit-switch


I think I'm consuming about 5KWHr when the AC is on. So maybe the generator is sufficient. But still, overkill.

Maybe I should just resort to using my phone as a hotspot. That's what I did in a pinch recently - it worked okay but was a little slow. Like Outlook was become unresponsive for 10-15 seconds every time I sent an email.

I think about the UPS - 1 hour may be good to just finish one meeting and then go into the office if the power is out longer than that..... Maybe a good enough compromise.




"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - B.Franklin
"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy
 
Posts: 11086 | Location: In the gilded cage | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Had a 4-hour power outage Monday night/Tuesday morning from a derecho in NE Indiana. Many nearby areas had power out for up to 3 days due to high voltage transmission pole and line damage (98mph winds will do that!). While power crews were repairing the damage, we started getting one to two second dropouts several times an hour that continued intermittently for a day and a half. Our UPS’s on the router, wifi, voip phone, televisions and their streaming devices allowed everything to keep working fine, instead of continually shutting off and resetting every few minutes. The internet stayed up during those short dropouts, but if the router had been rebooting itself several times an hour, it would have been useless.

Good example where having a few UPS’s can come in handy.
 
Posts: 937 | Location: NE Indiana  | Registered: January 20, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
I think about the UPS - 1 hour may be good to just finish one meeting and then go into the office if the power is out longer than that..... Maybe a good enough compromise.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Small generators are a pain. They require fresh fuel, maintenance and good ones are not cheap. I like your last option.
 
Posts: 13467 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of konata88
posted Hide Post
I'm leaning toward last option too. But I noticed generac had some natural gas offerings. (the one above available in diesel or natural gas or propane).

If NG, does that mean I can connect it to household supply from the utility company? or would it need it's on dedicated line (uses more than the house line could accommodate)?

ETA: seems like the APC models that fit me have a tendency to pop smoke. Looking at the Cyberpower units like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...d=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1




"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - B.Franklin
"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy
 
Posts: 11086 | Location: In the gilded cage | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I have three Cyberpower UPSs. The oldest for over eight years and still happy on the original battery. I might (should) remove the battery and test it separately, at this age. They have all worked great.

You might re-calculate how much UPS you need. If you'll look at the required Watts for each of your devices. My combo modem/router wants 3 Amps at 12V to run (for a max of 36 Watts). An old router sitting here had an input of only one Amp at 12V. My barely-scientific rule of thumb is, if they don't burn my thumb they are not running 60 Watts. (Fan-cooled or massively heat-sinked devices don't follow that rule.)
 
Posts: 1206 | Location: WI | Registered: July 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    UPS for connectivity during power outage?

© SIGforum 2022