Schrodinger's cat?

quote:

Originally posted by ggile:
I was going to post something about the Encyclopedia but Sandmand76 beat me to it and a lot more eloquently than I would have posted.

The internet is todays Encyclopedia, it is what you make of it.

Yes it was....it used to be, like the voluminous Britainnica etc, formerly useful. Today it has some good resources remaining.
But there it is again and again, the loads of ego and shinola to shovel threw to get there.

quote:

Originally posted by AITG:

At the end of it I come away realizing that I truly don't care what's posted on FB and I refuse to participate in Twitter or Instagram.

I realize that SigForum is somewhat of an echo chamber but there is enough intelligent thought here to keep me coming back.

agree with all of this

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quote:

Originally posted by bigmule:

quote:

Originally posted by ggile:
I was going to post something about the Encyclopedia but Sandmand76 beat me to it and a lot more eloquently than I would have posted.

The internet is todays Encyclopedia, it is what you make of it.

Yes it was....it used to be, like the voluminous Britainnica etc, formerly useful. Today it has some good resources remaining.
But there it is again and again, the loads of ego and shinola to shovel threw to get there.

A better comparison is the Encyclopedia is a subset of what is in the "Internet".
The Internet is many times more than just the knowledge of what is in any Encyclopedia and is diverse (not the PC diverse ) in many directions.

quote:

Originally posted by AITG:
I realize that SigForum is somewhat of an echo chamber but there is enough intelligent thought here to keep me coming back.

Kind of how I feel. Things are just different here. Even compared to other forums of similar interest

quote:

Originally posted by ggile:
The internet is todays Encyclopedia, it is what you make of it.

Pretty much. But, unfortunately, there is as much misinformation as there is information on the internet.

So what do we go back to for the truth? The printed word? That's not much better anymore.

Hey Arc, maybe ponder this one for a moment. I do regularly. How in the hell can we live in a world where almost every piece of information you could ever want or need is just seconds away on the little phone everyone carries in their pocket virtually 24/7, yet we've got a majority of the country that are beyond the definition of the term stupid.

I grew up during the era of corded rotary phones, no cable TV, and no internet yet managed to become educated on those topics I needed have knowledge about. Yet today, millenials and many others, apparently through a complete lack of common sense and/or intellect, have easy access to everything, but have virtually no useful knowledge on anything.

The "internet" (as it exists with its "face" as the sum of its "users"), is the result of providing the wealth of information to masses who care not of its value.

Casting pearls before swine.

It has been ruined, wholesale.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by ggile:
The internet is todays Encyclopedia, it is what you make of it.

Pretty much. But, unfortunately, there is as much misinformation as there is information on the internet.

So what do we go back to for the truth? The printed word? That's not much better anymore.

I worked with the ARPANET in college and later at a couple of companies that we referred to as either the “Arms dealers” to the Internet (we’d sell routers to anybody) or the plumbers of the Internet. At the time, the (relatively serious) joke was that, “You can find anything on the Internet. Of course, 95-97% of everything you find is pure BS.” I think it has gotten a little better (though fake reviews are a thing, etc), but one still has to carefully weigh whatever they find on the Internet and determine to what extent one believes it.

Social media is often a sewer. Far too many folks exchange real interaction with real people for fake “friends” on FacePalm. Some folks get real utility out of FacePlant, keeping up with family who are remote, etc. All of these things are tools. A tool is only as good as how it is used. I’d have thought Twitter was totally useless, but it appears our President has put it to good use.

The biggest problem I see is cultural. Maybe it is caused by social media, maybe it is amplified by social media, maybe there is no relation, I don’t know. I do know that when I was younger, it was common to have a totally different political viewpoint from someone and still be friends with them. Heck, I remember having discussions with folks I disagreed with strongly and coming away with each of us learning from the other and recognizing that while we might not agree, the other’s argument wasn’t without merit. These days it seems that the other is the antiChrist and one can’t even hear their arguments, much less consider them. (Of course, an approach like “Orange man bad.” couldn’t justify much consideration.)

I don’t know the answer. I do try to teach my kids as much as I can, especially critical thinking. I don’t really expect it, but I can hope and try to prepare them for a world where folks actually listen to each other respectfully and argue (discuss) rationally and respectfully.

Just like it's been said before, the internet is a tool. What you get out of it will depend, basically, on your own criteria and how good or bad you can use the tool.
Try to make the best of your time, cause you're always running out of it. Don't waste it on worthless things and you'll do fine. Be responsible.

0-0

The internet is what you make of it. It can be a tool of valuable information or a propaganda outlet. It depends on your mind and whether you truly are open minded and willing to learn.

The vast knowledge available on the internet is unique to our time. No other society had access to such vast amounts of information.

Sure it’s easy to hate the internet, social media is pretty fucking toxic, BUT if you have the right mindset you can learn quite a bit from the internet.

Sigforum red pilled me to a certain extent and is part of the reason I am a libertarian. I believe people should be free to learn and express themselves and the internet is a unique and exceptional vechicle to do that.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Hey Arc, maybe ponder this one for a moment. I do regularly. How in the hell can we live in a world where almost every piece of information you could ever want or need is just seconds away on the little phone everyone carries in their pocket virtually 24/7, yet we've got a majority of the country that are beyond the definition of the term stupid.

I grew up during the era of corded rotary phones, no cable TV, and no internet yet managed to become educated on those topics I needed have knowledge about. Yet today, millenials and many others, apparently through a complete lack of common sense and/or intellect, have easy access to everything, but have virtually no useful knowledge on anything.

I ponder many things, and this is but one.

Corded phones, pay phones, card indexes at the library, and more. I remember when we _got_ cable, and things like Mtv going on air, and more. Answering machines, car/bag phones. Atari, word processors, a lot of technology came along, and a lot of media.

Even the internet seemed like a great thing, before smart phones, and before social media.

I do appreciate the internet for the knowledge available. Ghost In The Shell is one of my favorite movies, the original, by the way.

Frankly, a discussion board like this is the best form of interaction on the internet, when properly managed. Facebook is a cesspool for a variety of reasons, so are many other places. Both because of espoused rules, and hidden operational rules. One can certainly find awful discussion boards. Reddit for instance, has loads of information and often some great content. Yet the shear wall of morons plus the left lean of a lot of redditors, means I don't bother.

The combination of smart phones, the internet, and the societal coddling that produced the typical Millennial mindset, the rise of this SJW "woke" nonsense, lots of things are combining to produce narrow minded self important garbage people. So it's not exactly The Internet when I say I'm tired of the the internet. But it is the internet, because all of these tools are on the internet.

I'm 42, I'm not exactly old, but I'm not exactly young. I'm an American mutt whose family is mostly from ME and NH, with some OH. Parts of the family go back to the forming of the country, but the largest part emigrated from Scotland to make shoes in Maine at the turn of the century. My parents were very hippy, but I took more from my grandparents and great grandparents, who were very "live and let live" as long as you didn't fuck with them.

What people currently consider a New England attitude, is shit. Most people would associate NE with leftist/liberal nonsense. There certainly are plenty of lefties that fit that quite nicely. What those lefties have grown accustomed too, is their safe, intellectually elite lives.

Over the years here, I know I've come across as somewhere between frosty to outright rude. Well, that's old school NE friendly. I'm happy to talk to you, in fact I like to talk about all kinds of ideas. But leave my life alone, and I'll leave yours alone. The Left, and The Right, can both go get fucked once they start moralizing or worse, making laws, about how anyone should live. Government and law can only limit and potentially erode freedom. Anyone leaning on those things to push their social agenda is dangerous.

The overall tone of the internet, and what it has done to how people interact with and perceive ideas and eachother, is a net negative. As the pendulum swings farther left, then farther right, either side just erodes liberty of one kind or another while in power, but it is seldom repaired but rather damaged in another direction when the other takes the reigns.

When a thought can be so offensive, it is seen as violence, we have a problem. The internet is nothing but thoughts, ultimately. If you can't entertain an idea because it is so abhorrent to you it's "violent," then you're mentally weak no matter what your level of intelligence.

It's not just the stupid that are dangerous. It is the people so certain of their intelligence that it's zealotry. It's as poisonous as the zealotry of Islam.

There was a comment made at church this morning that instantly made me think of this thread:

"Technology should be used to reinforce relationships, not replace relationships."

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:
There was a comment made at church this morning that instantly made me think of this thread:

"Technology should be used to reinforce relationships, not replace relationships."

Agreed.

We limit screen time diligently with my son. When he's old enough for a phone/puter, it will be strict.

What I see when we go out to dinner, troubles me. We do not sit my son in front of a phone/tablet so we can have dinner quietly. We talk to him, read books, and engage with him. We're there so we don't have to cook, not to ignore the kid.

Even I spend too much time looking at the phone. It's a sickness.

Ok, you are making a good point Arc. Parenting, or lack thereof, continues to be the determining factor in how kids end up. There are exceptions to every rule, but how we guide and teach our kids, directly or indirectly, goes a long way to who they become, how they act, what they believe, etc. Even in the presence of all of this technology. I believe it is time tested and measurable.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:
There was a comment made at church this morning that instantly made me think of this thread:

"Technology should be used to reinforce relationships, not replace relationships."

Agreed.

We limit screen time diligently with my son. When he's old enough for a phone/puter, it will be strict.

What I see when we go out to dinner, troubles me. We do not sit my son in front of a phone/tablet so we can have dinner quietly. We talk to him, read books, and engage with him. We're there so we don't have to cook, not to ignore the kid.

Even I spend too much time looking at the phone. It's a sickness.

This reminds me of our approach. Been using it for several years. Each car has a deck of cards stashed in it. We’d often play a few rounds of Hearts (watch out for Dirty Dora) between ordering and food arriving. Every once in a while, the one of the kids (now 14 & 16) will ask if they can go get the cards if it looks like a wait. No electronics at the table.

As much as I like the internet I hate it as well. We restrict the kids and use it mostly for homework or projects.
When we go to dinner which is very rare, we simply can't afford it, we color play tic tac toe, whatever we can to use their brain. But more than that we talk as a family.
It's amazing to see couples on dates just sit there and tap away on their phones. People will lose the ability to respond to any given situation because they lost that gift of human interaction.
Of course I may be over-generalizing but if the internet went t down the kids nowadays wouldn't know what to do with themselves. Its not hard to blame parents for this either.

It boils down to involvement in your kids lives.

My boy will go to public school, because that's what I can afford. You can bet I'll be paying attention.

You can also bet I'll be paying attention to any online activity and phone activity.

Anyone who allows their child unfettered access to the internet is a fool.

I could have written large portions of that myself.

"Tired" is how I've felt for years now and I'm only 36. The internet brings all sorts of amazing things but it is also a fire hose of news and opinions and anger and hypocrisy aimed at your head 24/7. Worse than that is the advertising which seems to have absolutely no fucking limits and is like a stage IV cancer in our society.

Human beings didn't evolve to live with this information overload, this money-and-growth-at-all-costs core ethic, to be so tolerant of bullshit behavior from others out of fear of legal consequences, etc. Even our behavior is now fucked up, that people won't call out bullshit when it's obvious because the person spewing it is on our side and that's all that matters, right?

Sometimes I think I'd be happier getting out of IT and becoming a car mechanic in Maine. My fingers, ears, and balls might freeze off, but at least I'd be doing honest work and not helping a giant corporation earn a few more bucks. I don't even go shooting anymore because of the crap DFW area ranges.

All I know is that if society collapses, I'm going to be a damn warlord with a mountain of guns and ammo. Might have a harem.


Oh, and arc? Thanks for speaking your mind. I wish I heard more stuff like this.

Are you less fond of people or the internet?

It just sounds like you are getting grumpy and old and everything that you don't love has soured on you.

I'm not chiding you, I'm 10 years older than you and I remember when it began.

It doesn't get better. Enjoy the ride.