To me the internet is like a Buffet. Go down the line and chose what you desire and pass by what you don't want.

When I started college I spent 1 day on the weekend going to the library to do my research. By the time I graduated, I seldom needed to go and got more information online that I could ever find.

I agree with a lot of what Arc has said, but on some points disagree. No need picking his post apart, we all don't have to agree 100% on anything. There were times when I dropped Social Media as it only pissed me off with the extreme left and right views of some people.

I very much see where you are coming from and what you are saying. But that is only part of the Internet and I generally choose not to partake.
My days are spent here and vehicle forums mainly. I do my best to stay out of the political threads. I prefer to talk substance that help me learn or help others with info they may need.

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If you are actually for personal freedom, whether someone goes to hell or not shouldn't trouble you.

I can’t say I agree with this. I am all about personal freedom but it also troubles or saddens me when I see people, make what I consider poor decisions, that likely will have a negative outcome in the end.
That does not mean I need to go forcing my opinions on them or telling them they are wrong and should change their ways. And dependent upon what their choices are does not necessarily mean I will write that person off.

You happen to not believe in God. I happen to be a Christian so not only do I believe in God but expand that out to believing in Jesus Christ being the son of God, and in the Holy Spirit.

I think no less of you as a person and from the what you post seem to be quite a solid person and respect many of your posts and the invisible friend that you are since we have never actually met.

So if you choose to check off the internet hopefully you’ll keep your email address as if I am ever around your way I’d like to shoot you a line a buy you lunch.
Same goes if you are around KY shoot me a line and the offer is the same.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

I grew up old school New England, which is very much "Leave me the fuck alone and I leave you the fuck alone," than the current liberal elite shit that NE MA peddles.

I grew up in old school CA. I remember it was straight out of the Brady Bunch. I remember it was not too long ago, before the latest leftist onslaught in Sacramento, CA had 16 years of George Deukmejian and Pete Wilson in the governor's mansion. And shortly before them, 8 years of Ronald Reagan. Those times are gone, and will never return. In the last 10 years, CA has accelerated to a race to the very bottom. Thank God my son turned out to be an anti-SJW, he would be basically a good addition to this forum. But I could not see raising him in current CA.

Since leaving my former state, my daily stress, aggravations, anger of normal everyday living, disappeared. When I visit CA for business, my friends and clients tell me that they see a remarkable change in me, that I'm happier, smiling more, and a cloud of stress gone. Maybe a change in locale might be a solution for you and your family. Moving for perhaps a better life for one's family is old as the caveman.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
I grew up old school New England, which is very much "Leave me the fuck alone and I leave you the fuck alone," than the current liberal elite shit that NE MA peddles.

That line made me think of oddball's Cut: Get Off My Lawn



There is too much hate and vitriol spread on the internet. People don't usually talk that way when they are face-to-face with a person.

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I can't be on the Left, because I do not wish to be ruled. Currently, I can't be on the Right, because I don't believe in God, and my ideas of personal freedom are just a touch too free.

Despite our differences with respect to a belief in a Creator... I generally agree. I respect your views. I wouldn't seek to impose mine.
And yes, my ideas of personal freedom are just a touch too free. Government has become far too consuming, too big to allow us to be free and just left alone.

I think the internet is probably one of the greatest things ever invented, but also one of the worst. Since the internet is so vast its impact is as varied as the things you can find on it.

As others have mentioned, you can find any information you need at the drop of a hat. You can connect instantly with pretty much anyone in the world, among other things.

Where we see the issue is that it, in particularly social media, give a platform to any idiot with an opinion. Now social media can be great, I mean, look at this website. Like it or not this website is social media. Not trying to fluff anyone up but what other website can you go to, post a question about almost anything and get an actual answer from someone who legitimately knows the field that you're referring to. From all ranges of medicine, to automotive, to construction and more. You'd have to join probably 30 different forums to get answers to questions that can simply be answered by posting in the lounge. And while conversations can get heated from time to time, members do a fairly good job at self moderating to keep this place respectful and welcoming.

Out of all the social media sites, twitter is probably the worst. You can be as anonymous as you want, and it's sole purpose is just to throw out random thoughts. You can post some pictures, but not enough where you'd post an album from your wedding or vacation. It's literally just a place to spout opinions, and allow those opinions to be shared 1000x over by people who agree. At least facebook, for all it's faults gives you more of a connection with people and businesses/pages.

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"Activist Athiests" are Cunts. Trying to convince someone there isn't a god, is as fruitful as convincing someone there is one, and the eyewitness accounts don't hold up in court.

I don't care if you believe in god, your integrity in dealing with fellow humans is what is important.

Arc.

Nail meet hammer. Michael Savage doesn't say much worth listening to but he said something years ago that stuck with me. He said "The Atheist who treats his fellow man the right way simply because he knows it is the right thing to do is far ahead of the Christian who does it because he fears some retribution in the after life." It's stating the obvious I know but when I heard it spoken it stuck.

I'm not a big fan of the new human nature that's been formed digitally. I think smart phones and social media which pretty much are the internet are the scourge. Real human interaction is pretty much a thing of the past. Body language, facial expressions and voice inflections have been replaced with bad spelling and emoji's.

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Originally posted by KevinCW:
No disrespect... But I'm missing something friend...

What are you trying to say?

I got halfway there, but then i was lost again.

"Oh Arc, you've been rambling"

I don't think we are supposed to know.

“A man can be himself only so long as he is alone; and if he does not love solitude, he will not love freedom; for it is only when he is alone that he is really free.”
— Arthur Schopenhauer

Dear Arc,

The Internet is an amazing piece of technology.

Many humans are shitheads, and there are many people using the Internet.

Remember... guns don't kill people, people kill the Internet.

Read more books.

To put a finer point on it, I'm not "blaming the internet," but it is a lament of sorts.

How do we get smarter? How do we test ideas? We do that by exposing them to others, and sharpening them through that interaction that shows the weakness of an idea, hopefully.

This is a slow progression towards greater knowledge, and truth. Ideally, but the well can be poisoned either without ones knowledge, or more likely today, with ones consent due to the ease social media brings to shaping ones own social sphere.

If everyone agrees with you, have you found truth, or just partisans? If you have found something that sounds like truth, such that you stop searching, is that really truth or have you just found a box comfortable enough?

Freedom is something that must be constantly pursued and maintained, so with truth and knowledge. A rolling stone, if you aren't engaged like Sisyphus pushing that rock, then you stagnate and die.

It seems to me that there are fewer and fewer places on the net, and in real life, where there is open exchange of ideas. Human nature means we will seek to put everything in a box, because we must order our world to understand it.

How do you know you aren't in a box, if you can't see the edges?

"The Internet" is, essentially, a library, at least from an informational access point of view.

There are good reasons libraries have signs on the wall: "Quiet!"

My thoughts to your point Arc are that I don't believe us humans were ready for the degree of which the internet smashed every culture of the world together in such a short time. Our natural progression as a species has now been synthesized.

One of JALLEN's favorite quotes comes to mind:

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

This is why I think small government shouldn't be a left-right paradigm. It's a freedom issue as well as a cultural issue.

I care about the truth. Facts helps me to take an informed position which makes sense for me. Making sense of it all is a tricky and very human part of it all. It has always been so.

What offends me is the willingness to blur right from wrong, weaken character, reduce personal responsibility, and think there are not consequences for actions outside of civility. It has been difficult to grow old and watch, read, and listen to how many social attributes are grotesquely stretched under the guise of acceptance or tolerance.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:



It seems to me that there are fewer and fewer places on the net, and in real life, where there is open exchange of ideas. Human nature means we will seek to put everything in a box, because we must order our world to understand it.

How do you know you aren't in a box, if you can't see the edges?

I would disagree that there are fewer places on the Net for an open exchange of ideas. The whole internet is the open and wild market place of ideas. A prime example is the Covington students. At another time, the media would have controlled the information and the students would have been buried by now. But because of the Internet, the truth, as in facts, came out despite the relentless liberal push for their narrative.

The Internet enables getting to the truth efficiently but it also enables bias confirmation just as easily. The criticism is unjustly aimed at the Internet when it should be aimed at people the overwhelming majority of whom prefer bias confirmation.

With regards to being in a box, I lump it with the same idea of thinking out of the box. I’m not one to think out of the box; I simply make sure I’m constantly expanding the box I’m in. One can safely assume you’re always operating in a box and the strategy should be you’re constantly expanding your horizons so that you never even see the edges of your box.

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I don't care if you believe in god, your integrity in dealing with fellow humans is what is important.

This. In spades. Whether or not one is religious, agnostic, or a full blown atheist, your morality is determined by your actions, not your beliefs.

I could write a three page reply to Arc but I'll just say that:
I agree with the general deterioration of critical thinking.
I agree that surrounding yourself with feel good opinions does nothing to further anything other than ones own ego.
I detest what's going on in public education today. Teach children to think. Do NOT teach children what to think.
Each January, my wife and I fast social media for 21 days. Instead, we read, reflect and meditate on the Bible...not taking someone elses' word for what's in it, but actually discovering it for ourselves. Each of us has free will, which comes with responsibility for our actions.
At the end of it I come away realizing that I truly don't care what's posted on FB and I refuse to participate in Twitter or Instagram.
I realize that SigForum is somewhat of an echo chamber but there is enough intelligent thought here to keep me coming back.

I had good parents. They invested in a set of Encyclopedia Americana at some point when I was a small child. I found the check stubs from the payments he made in his stuff when he died. The set includes the yearly annual updates up to 1975. I have this set in a bookshelf in my basement. You can open these books and find out about most anything, up until 1975 of course.

Do I open these books for research? No. Why? Internet. Opening my browser is so much more convenient and easy. Why do I keep them when I've been told they are worthless? I'm a book loving kind of guy. I read actual books. I read actual newspapers. It gives me comfort knowing that those encyclopedias are there. That I own something that my Father felt was important for his family back in 1958.

I suppose that one day when I'm gone these particular books will be thrown away to forever end their life in some fucking landfill. Disposed of by one of my kids or grandkids. In the meantime, they have a place in my home.

I've lived in Colorado all my life. Mostly in the Denver metro area. Time has changed a lot of things here and the population has just exploded. I long for the days of my youth and I miss my hometown of those days. I vaguely recognize it as the same place I grew up. To the extent that I could move away and not really miss it that much. Just the memories and the people I love that still live here.

Arc, I'm not sure if any of this is truly relative to your post. But it's what came to my mind.

I was going to post something about the Encyclopedia but Sandmand76 beat me to it and a lot more eloquently than I would have posted.

The internet is todays Encyclopedia, it is what you make of it.

My family couldn't afford the Encyclopaedia Britannica, so they bought a Collier's Encyclopedia for me to use. It was good enough, and I still have it, with many "yearbooks" in a bookshelf. I admit I don't use it any more--the Internet is much faster (and more up to date).

flashguy