Military Times article:
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“Hegseth removes rank insignia from military chaplains.

“Defense [sic in original] Secretary Pete Hegseth said U.S. military chaplains will no longer wear rank insignia, instead displaying symbols of their faith.

“Chaplains will retain their rank, he said in a video announcement Tuesday, but the new directive will shift how they are identified in uniform. Hegseth added that he would sign a memorandum solidifying the change.

“Before the change, a chaplain’s uniform carried their rank insignia along with a symbol denoting their religion.

“The policy, he said, ‘speaks to the difficult balance of the duality of a military chaplain. A chaplain is first and foremost a chaplain and an officer second. This change is a visual representation of that fact.’

“Hegseth also said that removing rank allowed chaplains to ‘be seen among the highest ranks because of their divine calling.’

“The directive follows a broader effort by Hegseth to reshape the military’s Chaplain Corps. In a December message, he said he wanted to restore chaplains’ focus on ministry and argued that the role had shifted toward counseling and support functions in recent years.

“He terminated the Army’s spiritual fitness guide and said he would simplify how the military categorizes religious affiliation.

“In his most recent message, Hegseth said that the number of religious affiliation codes was reduced from over 200 to just 31. Military Times was unable to independently verify these numbers.

“The military uses those codes to categorize troops’ religious beliefs.

“The move ‘brings the codes in line with its original purpose, giving chaplains clear, usable information so they can minister to service members in a way that aligns with that service member’s faith background and religious practice,’ Hegseth said.

“The defense [sic] secretary added that the Pentagon was not stopping with the pair of changes.

“‘We’re not even close to being done,’ he said.”

https://www.militarytimes.com/...tm_campaign=army-dnr

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I am curious what current and former military personnel think of the move. Not that it was ever a big deal to me, but even before my own religious beliefs changed, I thought the practice of treating a chaplain the same as I would a battalion commander seemed a little odd.

From a practical standpoint of traditional courtesies and no insignia to go by, who salutes first, or who calls whom “Sir”?

Thoughts?

I'm for it.

When I was training recruits, Great Lakes had some outstanding Chaplins. Not being very religious, they still impressed me with the way they attended to their religious duties. Aside from the Sunday services, it was normal to be training the division in house at night and to have a chaplin show up a 9pm. They would always ask me if it it was a good time for them to stop by. I always made the time, but I felt that if I had said it wasn’t, they would have understood and went on to the next compartment.

They were also a great resource when I had a recruit struggling and I wasn’t able to reach them. I cannot count the number of times I took a recruit to the chapel for impromptu counseling. There was always a Chaplin available and most times I would get a follow up call with recommendations for a follow up course of action. Sometimes it was just for a phone call home, sometimes it was to set up counseling with the sexual abuse counseling team.

But I saw how the recruits sometimes saw the commander rank on one collar instead of the cross on the other collar. Removing the rank identifiers will, IMO, allow them to be seen simply as god's servant.

And I can’t say enough about the chaplin at the USO in Rome that got us the audience with the pope.

I have a good friend that is a Chaplain and just got promoted to the rank of Lt. Colonel in the Virginia National Guard. He told me that he does NOT have any COMMAND authority. God Bless

Not having military experience I'm not qualified to weigh in, but when I was a boy our Navy Chaplain was an incredibly great man, and visited my family on occasion. At that time he was an 06 Navy Captain, and my father was probably an E-5 at the time. He was one of the kindest and gregarious men I ever knew. He took all the kids in the Church to his farm in the mountains of West Virginia on a grand camping trip, and we stayed on his property for a whole week doing all sorts of organized kid oriented activities every day. Very good memories. Even at that young age I understood the great divide in rank between him and my father, but he did not let it separate him from the love of his Methodist church members regardless of rank or the state of any particular family.

In that case the rank didn't seem to get in the way for anyone in that church. I was just a boy but that is my memory.

After I grew up I later learned he did have command duties for other Navy Chaplains at the time, and at a pretty high level iirc.

I used to see a Dentist who was a former Navy Captain Dentist, and he said he got out because he wanted to be a Dentist first and an Officer second. Based on that I can see there's some tension in the arena between being a medical professional and a senior officer at the same time. I'm guessing the higher the rank the harder the choices become, like any other profession or job.

You put an O1 with a warfare designator and an Admiral Chaplain, or Dr for that matter, in a lifeboat, guess who is in command?

Rank for a chaplain is for admin and pay, otherwise meaningless. So basically who cares?

Chaps will always be chaps. Active duty rarely notices the rank. And all the chaps I ever met won’t care about the rsnk. Chaps is usually the most upbeat person in any command. This seems like the least valuable change.

Maybe let us put hands on recruits? Get rid of naturalization recruits who are pieces of shit.

Is this a bad thing? No. Does this change anything? Also no.

Thanks for the comments. They are what I was seeking from military personnel, AD and veterans.

Perhaps things have changed in the decades since, but when I attended a 40-hour “race relations” course run by a chaplain, I never forgot for a minute that he was a major first and a member of the religious clergy second.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Thanks for the comments. They are what I was seeking from military personnel, AD and veterans.

Perhaps things have changed in the decades since, but when I attended a 40-hour “race relations” course run by a chaplain, I never forgot for a minute that he was a major first and a member of the religious clergy second.

That’s opposite of my 12 years active duty, we don’t notice rank. Just that’s it’s “chaps”.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
Just that’s it’s “chaps”.

Thanks again.
If, though, that is the general view in today’s armed forces, I can only wonder why the insignia issue is a particular burr under the SECWAR’s saddle (among others).

I am not a vet, but it would seem it currently doesn't matter to our vet's which I'll ascribe to the current active duty. I think it's probably a good thing in that case.

While on post on the SAC Ramp, at -20 and with the Aurora Borealis dancing overhead, a staff car pulls up to me. It's the Chaplain. The window comes open about 3 inches and:
"My son, are you warm enough"?
"Oh yes sir, quite comfortable"!
So...I am going to hell for lying to the Chaplain! At least hell will be warmer than the SAC Ramp.

39 years ago tomorrow a Navy Chaplain officiated at my wedding. My wife and I both worked some things out with him before and after the ceremony.

I think he was a Lt. Cmdr, but I don’t think I ever referred to him as anything other than “Chaplain”.


As Pedropcola said, for my Navy Drs and Chaplains were just “Doc” or “Chaplain”, their purpose is more about “healing” than “military presence”.


USMC, 1981-1990 if it matters.

I seem to recall this being done in the past. As an old soldier I see it as a very positive. A troubled young soldier who needs help might be intimidated by the rank and potentially avoid interacting with a high rank8ng chaplain.

The USAF view, was, at least, that you were an officer first and whatever your AFSC (Air Force Specialty Code) was second. I went to the same Air War College that Wing Commanders attended, and any number of medical officers, including me, carried G-Series orders and command authority during at least one assignment. Many flight surgeons are command pilots. In spite of the Geneva Convention, three Army dental officers were awarded the MOH for combat operations, among 76 other medical personnel overall historically, from all services. My final assignment was in the Pentagon immediately post-9/11 on the Air Force CAT (Crisis Action Team), alongside warfighters from all services, ANG and Reservists, planning combat ops. Chaplains carry a different load, and I can understand, but for any medic who thought they were a medic first, my favorite COS Gen John Jumper introduced me to my Pentagon assignment with "The mission of the Air Force is to fly, fight and win. And don't you ever forget it." A blank uniform would have been...something the General would not have understood.

Doesn't bother me at all but it's the military....rank is everything, always will be.

It also falls in line with how the Guards at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier work. Since no one knows the rank of the Unknown Soldier, all the guards (enlisted or officer) take their rank insignias off. This movie strikes me as something similar.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
It also falls in line with how the Guards at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier work. Since no one knows the rank of the Unknown Soldier, all the guards (enlisted or officer) take their rank insignias off.

From the pictures I have seen, the soldiers actually doing marching duty have no rank insignia on their uniforms, but the sergeant of the guard does wear rank insignia.

From the hallway outside my office I hear a booming voice I recognized "Who's in charge of this chickenshit outfit."

Me: "Good morning Chaplain, come on in and have a cup of coffee¡"

Charlie Troop, 2nd Squadron 17th Cavalry 101st Airborne, Fort Campbell Kentucky

https://www.findagrave.com/mem...ennis_john-rocheford

Meet Father Dennis.

He received a bronze star, 2 Purple Hearts, a presidential unit citation and the combat action ribbon in the battle of Hue city during the Vietnam war as an enlisted marine.


He was the radio operator for Gunnery SGt John Conley and SGT Alfredo Gonzalez, both of whom received the Medal of Honor for their actions during the battle.


After the war, he became a priest and spent the next 30 years tending to his flock, mostly marines and counseled them on combat stress/PTSD, etc.


Nobody, absolutely nobody, questioned his rank.

I don’t like it. Chaplain’s may not have any command authority but the lack of a rank insignia is something vague in an overall structure that does not do vague.