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Member |
Hey all, I'd appreciate some advice on pre-employment NDA agreements. Thank you! I have an upcoming job interview and was sent a NDA agreement to sign before the interview; my only concern is that if I was hired but then moved to another employer, whether this would cause issues for me. The job is a CRM administrator position and my concern is about the definition of "Confidential Information", it doesn't seem to be specific and it appears the company can designate any information as "Confidential". As a CRM admin, part of the job would entail creating workflows/processes, so from my reading the NDA is general enough that it could cover those and in a sense be a non-compete agreement. I went through the screening interview so this is a 2nd-level interview.
...let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one. Luke 22:35-36 NAV "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves." Matthew 10:16 NASV | ||
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Member |
I've had to do that in the second and later job interviews. Sometimes the prospective employer will disclose proprietary info that has a problem and ask how you would solve it. In your case you might see internal client info in your interview. Not very smart of them but it does happen. Not sure how they would ever prove a data breach was due to you? | |||
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Member |
Document needs a clear definition of what Confidential Information is, not a list of everything that is not Confidential Information. Document may be faulty even if signed. Seek the advice of your attorney. EasyFire [AT] zianet.com ---------------------------------- NRA Certified Pistol Instructor Colorado Concealed Handgun Permit Instructor Nationwide Agent for > US LawShield > https://www.texaslawshield.com...p.php?promo=ondemand CCW Safe > www.ccwsafe.com/CCHPI | |||
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Shaman |
I had to sign one during an interview and before I got a tour of the facility. There were trade secrets in the plant. He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. | |||
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"Member" |
(Sorry I couldn’t help myself, I’m a child) | |||
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Member |
Reading this agreement it appears the company is simply trying to prevent you from scooping up a bunch of customer info and taking it for yourself or for use with a new employer. I don't necessary see this as a means to prevent your future employment, just a way to remind you you're legally bound not to take anything of theirs. But having an attorney review the agreement is likely your best course of action. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
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Eschew Obfuscation |
I’ve been retired for a few years, but did a lot work involving NDAs back in the day. This is not legal advice, but this NDA is poorly drafted and has a lot issues that would make it difficult to enforce. But, to focus on your primary concern: To be considered confidential, any documentary info should be marked confidential; any non-tangible or oral info should be identified as confidential and confirmed in writing prior to disclosure. Sect 3 states that you are required to use ‘best efforts’ to protect their confidential information. Not only is this unreasonable and contrary to standard business practices (best efforts is usually reserved for highly proprietary financial info, info re a pending merger, etc), but why should you be required to use best efforts to protect their info when they don’t even have the obligation to identify what info is confidential? _____________________________________________________________________ “One of the common failings among honorable people is a failure to appreciate how thoroughly dishonorable some other people can be, and how dangerous it is to trust them.” – Thomas Sowell | |||
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Member |
Worth having an employment lawyer review. What I read seems very broad. Semper Fidelis | |||
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eh-TEE-oh-clez |
NDA's are entirely contractual. Unless there's some specific statute in the OP's jurisdiction that requires it, there's no common law rule that the confidential information must be identified as confidential at the time of disclosure or otherwise. The OP should retain competent legal counsel in his jurisdiction if he has legitimate concerns regarding his knowledge base and what it means to be an employee. The concerns expressed by the OP are beyond the scope of this NDA--he needs to talk to an attorney about what will likely come next: the Invention and Original Works Assignment Agreement. | |||
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His Royal Hiney |
I think you're overthinking it. NDAs are to protect company specific confidential information like how they do stuff, their financials, customers, etc. If you're just a cog in the wheel and not in the C-suite, you carry your knowledge with you wherever next job you may end up. You run a low risk of being chased after unless you steal their self-driving car AI algorithms. "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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Low Profile Member |
I'd have no concerns about it. Generally unenforceable except perhaps in the most egregious situation which presumably you would not be involved in. | |||
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Member |
Thank you all for responding! ...let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one. Luke 22:35-36 NAV "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves." Matthew 10:16 NASV | |||
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Eschew Obfuscation |
That's my point. Why should the receiving party be bound to treat something as confidential when the discloser has no obligation to identify it as confidential in the first place? If you want the receiving party to protect the confidentiality of the information, you should be obliged to say "this is confidential" before disclosing it. Attys drafting NDAs have a tendency to overreach; they don't want to limit themselves or miss something, and so they write an overly broad description of what constitutes their confidential information. In one of my last deals, we were trying to work out some terms with a data center. Their atty kept insisting that everything and everything re their data center was "confidential", including the layout of their facility, because it gave them a "competitive advantage". I went on their website and printed out pictures from their marketing materials showing not just the layout of the facility, but photos of the racks, servers, power supplies, etc. I distributed copies at the next negotiation session and asked the atty if their own photos ran afoul of the terms she was trying to impose on my client. _____________________________________________________________________ “One of the common failings among honorable people is a failure to appreciate how thoroughly dishonorable some other people can be, and how dangerous it is to trust them.” – Thomas Sowell | |||
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Member |
Agree with those who think it is not that big a deal. The term "confidential" is too broad to know what it really means. If something can be found on the internet or at the library, it can be "disclosed." But if you want to disclose something that belongs to the company and seems sensitive, such as contract info, secret ingredients, personal identifiable information, etc. - then consult that lawyer about how binding the NDA (and the law) is on you. | |||
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אַרְיֵה |
One of our SIGforum members had a problem with this sort of thing, had to lawyer up. הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים | |||
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Eschew Obfuscation |
It's not a big deal - until someone comes after you. Then you might think otherwise. _____________________________________________________________________ “One of the common failings among honorable people is a failure to appreciate how thoroughly dishonorable some other people can be, and how dangerous it is to trust them.” – Thomas Sowell | |||
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I Deal In Lead |
I had to sign a couple of NDAs simply to get in the building and do a job there. I also had to sign a NDA for every Medical Electronics company I worked for. Even Homeland Security had me sign one. There's very little that's actually confidential information in any company, but there is a lot of paranoia. I wouldn't worry too much about it. | |||
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Little ray of sunshine |
Aetocles is right. If you are worried, let a lawyer look at it. This law varies from state to state, but NDAs are contracts and generally enforceable. The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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Member |
I appreciate the comments. ...let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one. Luke 22:35-36 NAV "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves." Matthew 10:16 NASV | |||
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Little ray of sunshine |
This is generally NOT true. NDAs are contracts and are generally enforceable. While the OP is going on a job interview, he isn't an employee yet. You may be thinking of employee/employer non-compete agreements (which often have non-disclosure provisions in them). The enforceability of these is very, very different depending on what state you are in. Some states allow almost none of these, and other states will enforce most of them. And the non-compete provisions are often treated differently from non-disclosure provisions in the employee/employer context. The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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