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Job interview: required to sign NDA agreement beforehand Login/Join 
Member
Picture of lkdr1989
posted
Hey all, I'd appreciate some advice on pre-employment NDA agreements. Thank you!

I have an upcoming job interview and was sent a NDA agreement to sign before the interview; my only concern is that if I was hired but then moved to another employer, whether this would cause issues for me.

The job is a CRM administrator position and my concern is about the definition of "Confidential Information", it doesn't seem to be specific and it appears the company can designate any information as "Confidential".

As a CRM admin, part of the job would entail creating workflows/processes, so from my reading the NDA is general enough that it could cover those and in a sense be a non-compete agreement.

I went through the screening interview so this is a 2nd-level interview.

quote:

Non-Disclosure Agreement

This Non-Disclosure Agreement ("Agreement") is entered into in order to evaluate and potentially enter into a employment agreement or employment relationship (the “Purpose”), the company for itself and its subsidiaries, and the other party identified below hereby agree:

1. This agreement is effective as of today's date (“Effective Date”).

2. the company (the “Discloser”) may disclose to the other party (the “Recipient”) oral or written information pertaining to the Purpose that the Discloser considers confidential (“Confidential Information”).

3. Recipient may use Confidential Information only for the Purpose. Recipient must use its best efforts to protect Confidential Information and to prevent any unauthorized use or disclosure of Confidential Information. Recipient may share Confidential Information with its attorneys or tax preparers who need to know it and only if they have agreed with either party in writing to keep information confidential.

4. Confidential Information does not include information that: (a) was known to Recipient without restriction before receipt from Discloser; (b) is publicly available through no fault of Recipient; (c) is rightfully received by Recipient from a third party without a duty of confidentiality; or (d) is independently developed by Recipient. A party may disclose Confidential Information when compelled to do so by law if it provides reasonable prior notice to the other party unless a court orders that the other party not be given notice.

5. This agreement will terminate one (1) year from the Effective Date, however, this agreement’s provisions will survive as to Confidential Information that is disclosed before the effective date of termination.

6. Unless the parties otherwise agree in writing, Recipient’s duty to protect Confidential Information expires five years from disclosure.

7. This agreement imposes no obligation on either party to proceed with any employment agreement or employment relationship.

8. No party acquires any rights related to the Confidential Information under this agreement except the limited rights necessary to use the Confidential Information for the Purpose.

9. This agreement is not assignable or transferable by either party without the prior written consent of the other party.

10. This agreement is the parties’ entire agreement on this topic, superseding any prior or contemporaneous agreements. Any amendments must be in writing and signed by both parties. The parties may execute this agreement in counterparts, which taken together will constitute one instrument. Failure to enforce any of provisions of this agreement will not constitute a waiver




...let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one. Luke 22:35-36 NAV

"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves." Matthew 10:16 NASV
 
Posts: 4406 | Location: Valley, Oregon | Registered: June 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've had to do that in the second and later job interviews. Sometimes the prospective employer will disclose proprietary info that has a problem and ask how you would solve it. In your case you might see internal client info in your interview. Not very smart of them but it does happen. Not sure how they would ever prove a data breach was due to you?
 
Posts: 7781 | Registered: October 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of EasyFire
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Document needs a clear definition of what Confidential Information is, not a list of everything that is not Confidential Information.

Document may be faulty even if signed. Seek the advice of your attorney.


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Posts: 1441 | Location: Denver Area Colorado | Registered: December 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Shaman
Picture of ScreamingCockatoo
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I had to sign one during an interview and before I got a tour of the facility.
There were trade secrets in the plant.





He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.
 
Posts: 39939 | Location: Atop the cockatoo tree | Registered: July 27, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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(Sorry I couldn’t help myself, I’m a child)
 
Posts: 21501 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of bigdeal
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Reading this agreement it appears the company is simply trying to prevent you from scooping up a bunch of customer info and taking it for yourself or for use with a new employer. I don't necessary see this as a means to prevent your future employment, just a way to remind you you're legally bound not to take anything of theirs. But having an attorney review the agreement is likely your best course of action.


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Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 33845 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Eschew Obfuscation
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I’ve been retired for a few years, but did a lot work involving NDAs back in the day.

This is not legal advice, but this NDA is poorly drafted and has a lot issues that would make it difficult to enforce.

But, to focus on your primary concern: To be considered confidential, any documentary info should be marked confidential; any non-tangible or oral info should be identified as confidential and confirmed in writing prior to disclosure.

Sect 3 states that you are required to use ‘best efforts’ to protect their confidential information. Not only is this unreasonable and contrary to standard business practices (best efforts is usually reserved for highly proprietary financial info, info re a pending merger, etc), but why should you be required to use best efforts to protect their info when they don’t even have the obligation to identify what info is confidential?


_____________________________________________________________________
“One of the common failings among honorable people is a failure to appreciate how thoroughly dishonorable some other people can be, and how dangerous it is to trust them.” – Thomas Sowell
 
Posts: 6643 | Location: Chicago, IL | Registered: December 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Worth having an employment lawyer review. What I read seems very broad.


Semper Fidelis
 
Posts: 121 | Location: Missouri | Registered: August 01, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
eh-TEE-oh-clez
Picture of Aeteocles
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quote:
Originally posted by CoolRich59:

But, to focus on your primary concern: To be considered confidential, any documentary info should be marked confidential; any non-tangible or oral info should be identified as confidential and confirmed in writing prior to disclosure.


NDA's are entirely contractual. Unless there's some specific statute in the OP's jurisdiction that requires it, there's no common law rule that the confidential information must be identified as confidential at the time of disclosure or otherwise.

The OP should retain competent legal counsel in his jurisdiction if he has legitimate concerns regarding his knowledge base and what it means to be an employee. The concerns expressed by the OP are beyond the scope of this NDA--he needs to talk to an attorney about what will likely come next: the Invention and Original Works Assignment Agreement.
 
Posts: 13067 | Location: Orange County, California | Registered: May 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
Picture of Rey HRH
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I think you're overthinking it. NDAs are to protect company specific confidential information like how they do stuff, their financials, customers, etc.

If you're just a cog in the wheel and not in the C-suite, you carry your knowledge with you wherever next job you may end up. You run a low risk of being chased after unless you steal their self-driving car AI algorithms.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 20255 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'd have no concerns about it. Generally unenforceable except perhaps in the most egregious situation which presumably you would not be involved in.
 
Posts: 3534 | Registered: August 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of lkdr1989
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Thank you all for responding!




...let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one. Luke 22:35-36 NAV

"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves." Matthew 10:16 NASV
 
Posts: 4406 | Location: Valley, Oregon | Registered: June 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Eschew Obfuscation
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quote:
Originally posted by Aeteocles:
... there's no common law rule that the confidential information must be identified as confidential at the time of disclosure or otherwise.

That's my point. Why should the receiving party be bound to treat something as confidential when the discloser has no obligation to identify it as confidential in the first place? If you want the receiving party to protect the confidentiality of the information, you should be obliged to say "this is confidential" before disclosing it.

Attys drafting NDAs have a tendency to overreach; they don't want to limit themselves or miss something, and so they write an overly broad description of what constitutes their confidential information.

In one of my last deals, we were trying to work out some terms with a data center. Their atty kept insisting that everything and everything re their data center was "confidential", including the layout of their facility, because it gave them a "competitive advantage". I went on their website and printed out pictures from their marketing materials showing not just the layout of the facility, but photos of the racks, servers, power supplies, etc. I distributed copies at the next negotiation session and asked the atty if their own photos ran afoul of the terms she was trying to impose on my client. Wink


_____________________________________________________________________
“One of the common failings among honorable people is a failure to appreciate how thoroughly dishonorable some other people can be, and how dangerous it is to trust them.” – Thomas Sowell
 
Posts: 6643 | Location: Chicago, IL | Registered: December 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Agree with those who think it is not that big a deal. The term "confidential" is too broad to know what it really means. If something can be found on the internet or at the library, it can be "disclosed." But if you want to disclose something that belongs to the company and seems sensitive, such as contract info, secret ingredients, personal identifiable information, etc. - then consult that lawyer about how binding the NDA (and the law) is on you.
 
Posts: 1597 | Location: Virginia, USA | Registered: June 02, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
אַרְיֵה
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One of our SIGforum members had a problem with this sort of thing, had to lawyer up.



הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים
 
Posts: 31699 | Location: Central Florida, Orlando area | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Eschew Obfuscation
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quote:
Originally posted by RoverSig:
Agree with those who think it is not that big a deal.

It's not a big deal - until someone comes after you. Then you might think otherwise.


_____________________________________________________________________
“One of the common failings among honorable people is a failure to appreciate how thoroughly dishonorable some other people can be, and how dangerous it is to trust them.” – Thomas Sowell
 
Posts: 6643 | Location: Chicago, IL | Registered: December 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
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I had to sign a couple of NDAs simply to get in the building and do a job there.

I also had to sign a NDA for every Medical Electronics company I worked for.

Even Homeland Security had me sign one.

There's very little that's actually confidential information in any company, but there is a lot of paranoia.

I wouldn't worry too much about it.
 
Posts: 10626 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
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quote:
Originally posted by Aeteocles:
quote:
Originally posted by CoolRich59:

But, to focus on your primary concern: To be considered confidential, any documentary info should be marked confidential; any non-tangible or oral info should be identified as confidential and confirmed in writing prior to disclosure.


NDA's are entirely contractual. Unless there's some specific statute in the OP's jurisdiction that requires it, there's no common law rule that the confidential information must be identified as confidential at the time of disclosure or otherwise.

The OP should retain competent legal counsel in his jurisdiction if he has legitimate concerns regarding his knowledge base and what it means to be an employee. The concerns expressed by the OP are beyond the scope of this NDA--he needs to talk to an attorney about what will likely come next: the Invention and Original Works Assignment Agreement.


Aetocles is right. If you are worried, let a lawyer look at it.

This law varies from state to state, but NDAs are contracts and generally enforceable.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 53411 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of lkdr1989
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I appreciate the comments.




...let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one. Luke 22:35-36 NAV

"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves." Matthew 10:16 NASV
 
Posts: 4406 | Location: Valley, Oregon | Registered: June 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
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quote:
Originally posted by nasig:
I'd have no concerns about it. Generally unenforceable except perhaps in the most egregious situation which presumably you would not be involved in.


This is generally NOT true. NDAs are contracts and are generally enforceable. While the OP is going on a job interview, he isn't an employee yet.

You may be thinking of employee/employer non-compete agreements (which often have non-disclosure provisions in them). The enforceability of these is very, very different depending on what state you are in. Some states allow almost none of these, and other states will enforce most of them. And the non-compete provisions are often treated differently from non-disclosure provisions in the employee/employer context.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 53411 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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