Preface with, I use Mac, if that matters ---

I have been using SuperDuper for straight up mirror copies to a rotation of external drives. This was my somewhat manual process of backup for years. I'd like to continue that for monthly snapshots. But I think it would be nice to try again to see how Time Machine might work. Seems like I've tried to resist Mac features rather than to embrace them. Time Machine seemed laggy to me years ago, and so I went another route.

Anyway, I need a NAS. I prefer at least a few drives and RAID. How much do I need to think about spending to get a multi-drive RAID NAS with good performance? What brands should I consider.? Is there a claer winner that I'd be crazy not to get?

I've noted the WD "My Cloud" requires all data to write through the WD cloud. I definitely do not want this. I'd like to write directly to the device over my home LAN. I'm not interested in having cloud access I have a separate cloud-based service for that functionality.

Thanks guys!

I can’t help with your NAS question, but If you go the Time Machine route, I discovered a way to make TM backups run faster. Explained in my old thread below:

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...030044364#2030044364

Ive always liked the Synology DiskStation 2-bay NAS

Ive got about four of them. Easy to set up, very good software interface, PC or Mac compatible...

https://www.newegg.com/synolog...0j/p/N82E16822108716

quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo Jones:
Ive always liked the Synology DiskStation 2-bay NAS

Ive got about four of them. Easy to set up, very good software interface, PC or Mac compatible...

https://www.newegg.com/synolog...0j/p/N82E16822108716

I also prefer Synology
with at least 2 drives in a mirror.
or better 4 or more drives in a 2 redundant drive configuration.

Currently have 6 used for personal and work stuff at various locations.

As Far as NAS's go- QNAP is the best but more expensive a bit.
Synology are very popular.
Others do NAS's are WD, Buffalo and others.
The better the NAS the more "apps" available and have more support and regular updates.
NAS's are basically a cheap server-type computer running a Special Linux based embedded OS.
Very versatile and especially great for file serving.
Can be cheap to very expensive.
Pick your poison.

I've been satisfied with my Synology DS218+. I've a pair of WD Red 4TB drives in it.

I don't place a lot of demand on it, though. It's only used to host the DVR software and storage for our OTA TV DVR, and I run Synology Surveillance Station for the surveillance cameras' NVR. (The latter I do not recommend beyond the two free camera licenses. It's not very good.)

I'm thinking about NAS with a reliable "Personal Cloud" feature, that my wife and I could access via both local WiFi and remote internet.

I would be interested in hearing about any personal experience.

The environment is mostly Apple, with two business databases that serve Windows programs.

So I'm thinking: Synology 2 Bay NAS DiskStation DS220+ (Diskless)

and qty. (2): Western Digital 4TB WD Red Plus NAS Internal Hard Drive HDD - 5400 RPM, SATA 6 Gb/s, CMR, 128 MB Cache, 3.5"

How's that look?

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:
So I'm thinking: Synology 2 Bay NAS DiskStation DS220+ (Diskless)

and qty. (2): Western Digital 4TB WD Red Plus NAS Internal Hard Drive HDD - 5400 RPM, SATA 6 Gb/s, CMR, 128 MB Cache, 3.5"

How's that look?

You might look at the Red Pro.
5400 rpm drives are terrible performers.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
You might look at the Red Pro.
5400 rpm drives are terrible performers.

Comparatively speaking: True. But they also run cooler, have marginally lower energy consumption, are quieter, generally tend to live longer, and are more economical.

If you need the performance then the 7200 RPM drives make sense. I did not.

I run a FreeNAS (renamed TrueNAS) server at my home. 6TB mirrored RAID. WD Red Plus. 5400 RPM is fine for this purpose. Performance can be increased with a cache drive but I’ve never had the need.

I way overbuilt my NAS with an Intel i3-9100F. I’m able to run virtual machines on it but I don’t because I shut it off unless it’s needed. The mistake I made was choosing a motherboard that doesn’t support ECC memory. Some claim it’s an issue, others say it doesn’t matter.

I seem to recall that synology had some issues with ransomware but I don’t recall the details. If you feel like putting together a TrueNAS box, I’ll help out.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
You might look at the Red Pro.
5400 rpm drives are terrible performers.

Comparatively speaking: True. But they also run cooler, have marginally lower energy consumption, are quieter, generally tend to live longer, and are more economical.

If you need the performance then the 7200 RPM drives make sense. I did not.

The only thing that I completely agree with an/or is important is that they are in deed cheaper.

I have Netgear ReadyNAS. Easy as a Time Machine target.

5400 rpm are fine for overnight backup where you are not directly (as in, sitting at keyboard) impeded by write speed. If it takes 2 hours instead of 1 in the middle of the night… it doesn’t matter.

That said, I always go faster.

I used an Apple Time Capsule for a long time. Router, WiFi, Time Machine Backup, and Print Server (USB line to old HP 6MP with USB to parallel converter cable).

The 3TB Seagate Drive died this year so I put a 4TB SSD in the Time Capsule, and configured it for ethernet only, connected to a new NetGear WiFI router that works a lot better than the Time Capsule did. Still have the old HP running on it too.

You can do this with any Time Capsule, or even any Airport Extreme with a USB drive attached. Using NAS for Time Machine has mixed results and is not supported by Apple.

Now, I had a problem last year with a corrupted drive on my iMac, which hosed a system update, and then I found my Time Machine backup was hosed as well. I was able to recover everything and build a new system but it was not a pleasant experience.

So now I run the main system on an external SSD and have Carbon Copy Cloner run daily backups to a second identical size SSD. To me this is the best setup. If anything happens to the main drive all I have to do is boot from the clone. If my iMac dies I can just move the external drive to another Mac.

Time Machine is primarily for my MacBook, my son's iMac, and so I can "go back in time" to find earlier versions of files or other stuff on my main iMac.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
You might look at the Red Pro.
5400 rpm drives are terrible performers.

Comparatively speaking: True. But they also run cooler, have marginally lower energy consumption, are quieter, generally tend to live longer, and are more economical.

If you need the performance then the 7200 RPM drives make sense. I did not.

The only thing that I completely agree with an/or is important is that they are in deed cheaper.

Ok, I'm going to somewhat retract my earlier statement. The MTBF is now the same for both, and the average power consumption and noise figures aren't significantly different.

That didn't used to be so. There used to be a fairly significant difference--even as recently as four years ago, when I bought my WD Reds. Looks like I was operating on out-of-date information.

If your only/main use for the NAS is as a backup store, performance should not be a top priority. So the backups take 20 min. instead of 15, why would that be significant? If you are serving streaming video to multiple clients, the quicker the better.

WRT which NAS, I usually build my own on a FreeBSD platform. The big advantage with this is I can use a ZFS disk array. FreeNAS gives you this in an easy-to-get-started package, and a web-based configuration manager, but I prefer my home cooking as it gives me more options for hardware selection, and besides, it's what I am used to.

If I'm buying a NAS off-the-shelf, I'm probably looking at Synology, and then usually because my customer is insisting on a "name brand" and Synology has been very effective in marketing their line to non-technical managers. Under the hood of a Synology NAS you will find Linux and the same open source application software that is in FreeNAS, and a roll-your-own system. It's not so much about the money, but I can usually get a home grown or FreeNAS installed and in service before my customer completes their procurement cycle for an off-the-shelf product.

What do you guys use for hardware on the open source approach? Any cheapish rack mount options?

Also, with the Synology approach (or open source for that matter), is it easy to have it do security patching? Realizing that they all are going to have opensource under the hood, I'd like to make sure I don't go to sleep and miss something like Log4j. That said, again,.. I intend to firewall it from the web anyway.

Not looking for cloud I'll trust that to a commercial company with 2FA employed.

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:
What do you guys use for hardware on the open source approach? Any cheapish rack mount options?

If I was going to roll my own I'd build my own hardware from scratch.

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:
Also, with the Synology approach (or open source for that matter), is it easy to have it do security patching?...

Synology seems to be very responsive to new threats and vulnerabilities and I've never yet had an update go all wahoonie-shaped on me (knock on wood). (There are those who have, though.)

Mine is somewhat exposed to the 'net (OTA DVR for off-premises viewing, Surveillance Station for the obvious reason). I keep a close eye on it, have it's own security measures battened-down, and appropriate rules on the "firewall" router, but I don't worry overmuch about it.

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:
What do you guys use for hardware on the open source approach? Any cheapish rack mount options? …

Used enterprise gear from eBay is pretty nice. I have to say that 1u sucks. It’s noisy. I hear my pfsense Server everywhere on the main floor even though it’s in the basement.

I’d go with a regular tower with a decent power supply and motherboard.

I have a mid tower (Cooler Master Centurion 5) case that holds a bunch of hard drives. It holds 10 if you use the 5.25” bays. Get a motherboard with an M.2 drive slot for the operating system.

I think literally anything is going to run TrueNAS. https://www.truenas.com/docs/c...ardware-requirements

Of course a Synology box requires nothing other than plugging it in and I have no problem suggesting one.

r0gue, do look at a Synology DS920+. At this point you really don’t know exactly what you’ll be using your NAS for. When you compare what the DS920+ gives you vs the DS220+, you will see that it is worth the extra $250. With the 920, you get a four core processor, twice the ram, NVMe M.2 SSD cache option, two Ethernet ports that can be paired, four bays for future expansion, and the ability to use an expansion chassis down the road.

Four bays will ultimately be cheaper for you, for when you eventually run out of space, you can simply add a third drive and convert your array from a Raid 1 to a SHR or Raid 5. With a two bay unit, you must replace both drives with two higher capacity ones. Whatever you do, be sure your setup supports btrfs.

FWIW, I have four Synologys, a DS218+, DS1019+, DS920+, and a DS1621+ (Some of these are for work, but I administer them). The DS1621+ is a workhorse, but the DS920+ is the most bang for the buck.

One last thing… if you do go for a two bay unit, get larger drives than 4TB. I bought a couple of Seagate Exos X14 14TB refurbs from Newegg for $239 each. They look like they came from the factory, and the S.M.A.R.T. data reported zero hours on the units. I believe they are coming from Seagate. They’re loud, but they are enterprise drives. Or shuck out some Bestbuy easystore drives. I got some 14TB drives that way that appear to be WD Ultrastar drives.

As for the drive rpm, even 5400 rpm drives will be fine. Unless you have a gigabit network and a NAS with a gigabit port, you will saturate your network long before you bottleneck the 5400 rpm drives, especially when they’re in an array.

Go look at specs on NAScompares.com. His teeth are a mess, but he does a really nice job of running through various models. Not just Synology, but QNAP, Drobo, and others.