Why did the Nazis not simply kill all of the Jews upon arrival into the camps? Why keep them alive, and periodically choose who was fit to live and who wasn't? I'd think the labor couldn't have been that valuable.

A morbid thought, I know. Pretty clear even those spared death in those camps were in terrible shape - physically, mentality, etc. Just seems the regime easily could have killed everyone, rather than operating and maintaining the prison camps for years, to the extent they did.

Labor for the war effort - they allowed Germany factories to be built near the camps and use those 'fit' to work as slave labor.

IG Farben is an example -

"By 1943 IG Farben was manufacturing products worth three billion marks in 334 facilities in occupied Europe; almost half its workforce of 330,000 men and women consisted of slave labour or conscripts, including 30,000 Auschwitz prisoners.

Also, the Germans settled upon gassing and cremation for the death camps and that took time and a labor force (also mostly slave labor, overseen by German Nazis). They found early in the war the German SS soldiers didn't fare well mentally just murdering civilians with bullets all day - not to mention they needed the bullets for the war effort. So in their desire for efficiency, the death camps were created to gas them.

Of course there is a lot more to it, but from my fair amount of reading on the subject, that's it in a nutshell.

Killing millions of people is not as easy as you might think.

As noted - cheap labor. Work them for as long as they lived. Replace as needed.

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Killing millions of people is not as easy as you might think.

This did occur to me. The logistics, materials, manpwer etc could have been limiting I suppose.

The Nazis tried to be more efficient. They even computed the cost of the bullets used to kill people and that of bulldozing the trench for the mass graves. The tried closed vans that run the vehicles exhaust into the rear. In theory, the van would arrive at the burial site and the bodies would be dragged out.
The camps had to have staff. Workers were sel3cted from the new arrivals. Jews were made to pull the bodies out of the gas chamber, then move them into the ovens. Others had to collect the discarded clothes and search them for valuables.
With the labor shortage many were sent into construction and production. Once, the job was done or they were took weak to work, they were eliminated.
At “Treblinka...Historians estimate that about 900,000 Jews were murdered at this concentration camp in Nazi-occupied Poland over a mere 16 months. Say 150 pounds per body, that means 67,500 tons of flesh had to be disposed of in just over a year.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Killing millions of people is not as easy as you might think.

Not to mention the disposal of the bodies. That's where the furnaces came in. Digging long trenches and using machine guns proved to be too cumbersome and slow. The gas chambers fixed that problem. To this day, it's still hard for me to respect the German people. Hitler could not get his goal done without the help of the German population.

Jim

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Why did the Nazis not simply kill all of the Jews upon arrival into the camps? Why keep them alive, and periodically choose who was fit to live and who wasn't? I'd think the labor couldn't have been that valuable.

A morbid thought, I know. Pretty clear even those spared death in those camps were in terrible shape - physically, mentality, etc. Just seems the regime easily could have killed everyone, rather than operating and maintaining the prison camps for years, to the extent they did.

I know from visiting Dachau that a lot of prisoners were used for medical experiments.

Slave labor.

Dead within hours of arrival.

A piece of evidence.

Years ago my daughter read a book about the Holocaust and, although only in 5th grade at the time, was moved enough by it to write the author. This was the start of a friendship that is still alive and well.

The author never spent any time in camps however was in hiding and still has a very clear recollection of the events that resulted in the death of her family. Later she met and married a man who survived several camps then came to the US where he ended up fighting for the US in Korea.

When I first met this incredible couple in person I was taken aback with how quiet and gentle they both were and one night after dinner I asked Jack how he managed to survive the multiple camps he quietly said "i kept my head down, did my jobs and they let me live"

Sadly, Jack passed away a few years ago but we have traveled to NYC twice and visited Ruth at the Holocaust museum in Battery Park where she has taught me more then I ever thought I would know about this horrible period in time.

The original plan was to kill them all after the war, which until the Russians starting fighting back, was expected to be very short, like done with by Xmas, 1941. Once it became clear there would be no quick final victory, Hitler ordered the Final Solution to be expedited. Most of the Holocaust happened in a two year span, once the real death camps in Poland got up and running. The Einsatzgruppen couldn't even come close to the numbers the death camps eventually achieved. The real death camps were all in Poland. All the rest, while very bad places to be, were Club Med by comparison. There's almost nothing left to see of the six death camps in Poland other than Auschwitz.

At Auschwitz in particular, all children, old folks and most women were killed immediately. Fit men were used for slave labor.

Twin children were ferreted out for Mengele to perform his bizarre, disgusting experiments.

If you have Netflix, watch BBC's Auschwitz: The Nazis and the Final Solution.

The really sad statistic is that Hitler is considered to be "only" at #3 on the list of being responsible for most deaths.
Mao and Stalin did things differently and over a longer period of time but they didn't lose a war. They mostly killed their own people (and other fellow citizens did the dirty work) and the realization of what they did has taken longer to uncover. Since China, and Russia too, has yet to be fully exposed, the numbers are really an educated guess.

Also realize there were several types of camps. Auschwitz and other concentration camps did both exterminate and slave labor.

But there were some camps that were pure extermination camps (aside from maybe some slave labor helping with the gassing, burning, and such - known as Sonderkommandos), such as Treblinka, Belzec, and others where it was all killing and disposal - no force labor or other activities.

I read a book many, many, years ago about the Allies knowledge of what the Germans were doing during the Holocaust. It could have been stopped, but the Allies chose not to. Why? Because of the Germans resources that were used in carrying out these murders. One statistic still remains in my head. At the time right after D-Day with the Russians pushing from the east and the Americans and British pushing from the west, the Germans were using over 30% of their rail capacity to transport people to concentration and death camps. Transport for military purposes was considered secondary in keeping up with 'the final solution'. Unbelievable!

And never forget, this institutional insanity was not limited to the Germans. They had plenty of willing comrades to assist them. The Poles, French, Ukrainians, Italians, Romanians, et al. are all dirty as hell. Even the Vatican has the blood of innocents on its hands.

My FIL who liberated one of the death camps never spoke about the event other than to say he could not understand how one human being could do that to another...

It is my hope to one day visit one of the camps and I think everyone should as well.

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At the time right after D-Day with the Russians pushing from the east and the Americans and British pushing from the west, the Germans were using over 30% of their rail capacity to transport people to concentration and death camps. Transport for military purposes was considered secondary in keeping up with 'the final solution'. Unbelievable!

Yes, they kept up right until the end.

People talk about 'evil' a lot in this world, but to me this whole planned extermination of people by the Nazis is absolutely pure EVIL, even more so that an entire country allowed it to happen, by either participating or turning a blind eye to it.

I was privileged to meet and talk with Elie Wiesel. One of the profound conversations I have every had.

I've watched many documentaries on that period, and other than just having the knowledge of human nature, I would believe the Nazis just wanted an orderly and less messy way of disposing of their unwanted.

They were amazed the majority of their unwanted appeared to willingly march to their slaughter. I believe, because of that and the efficient use of them as slaves, their "problem" was taking care of itself with the least amount of Nazi manpower. Efficiency!

I absolutely love the fact the Allies forced the Nazi officers of all ranks and their troops to move and load countless dead victims into trucks. I don't remember the documentary, but it was showing that footage which hasn't been seen before. They also had the towns people parade through to witness what was going on "without their knowledge and/or support."

Frack the Nazis, and frack their murderous and socialist ways!!!