quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:

quote:

Originally posted by 2BobTanner:
And how would the Castle Doctrine concept not be applicable to such situations?

It wouldn't be?

They'd already be there, and have already posed no threat to you. You arriving at the property and trying to eject them would make you the provoker. In fact, if they are claiming that they are residing in the property as squatters, they might use castle doctrine against you. Castle doctrine typically concerns a person's right to be safe in their "residence", not necessary concerned with who "owns" the property: for example, a landlord who breaks into a tenant's house isn't going to get a castle doctrine break for being the owner on the deed.

The castle doctrine concerns the use of force in your residence to protect yourself from intruders. It's not a murder ticket to recover property.

However, if you were still living in your home, and as Ronin stated, returned from vacation to find people in the home. At that point you are the resident and they are trespassing not residents.

Although I wouldn't want to spend my money on attorney fees to find out if that held water, in CA especially.

quote:

If the cops arrive and these trespassers look like they are "living" there (and not just dropping by occasionally to use your hot tub), but really can't articulate that they have a "right" to be there, then you'd get directed to make a petition for ejectment. As BurtonRW mentioned above, we don't make people homeless without due process, and it's not the cop's job (or within his authority) to make the call whether these people have a right to be there. Doubtless there are tons of incidences where someone calls foul on someone who, up to that point, was rightfully living in the property (a friend or family member invited to stay, a person renting a room without a lease, etc.). Ejectment is, generally, a fast process with a lower burden of proof for the land owner.

However, if the person in the property makes a claim that they legally have right to be there (they have a lease, they were a live-in girlfriend, they've been there for years and have been maintaining an abandoned house), then you get to go through an Unlawful Detainer action where you get to prove to the court that you indeed have a right to kick these people that supersedes their right to live in the home.

Glad we keep it simple here and ascribe to none of that nonsense listed above.

It is super easy here.
Not on the deed, lease, or legally married to someone on the deed or lease, GOODBYE!!!

Yup, you can live with someone for years and years, pay rent, have stuff in the house, one day they get pissed at you and want to kick you out and you are not on paper there, See you later.
Can’t count how many fellas got caught cheating by their baby mama and out they go. Granted I have to stand there for 30 minutes or so as they stuff their Jordan shoes and video game collection in trash bags while their ride comes and gets them.
Makes life so much easier that way. Are you on the lease or deed, Yes or No, married to someone who is? No, buts, no wells, simple yes or no.
Yes you stay, no you go, simple. Refuse, then well you’ll be staying at the detention facility for the night.
Trespass or Burglary for you.

quote:

Originally posted by SigSAC:
You also have the situation where the "squatters" have a document showing that they have a lease or have bought the property.

That has been used in several locations (I've seen some of the stories) and have taken long legal battles to get them out.

This^^^

It's one thing if some homeless people break into your property to use as shelter. Most of those cases are clear cut. On the other hand, there are professional squatters these days who are pretty savvy. E-signed documents are common these days. It's not difficult for a squatter to draw up a phony but legitimate-looking lease, and it's not the cops' job to determine if a lease is legitimate or not.

I've read about cases where con artists rent out a property that isn't theirs. They find a vacant property, break in and change the locks. They find a renter who is happy to rent the place at a price that's too-good-too-be-true. As above, they draw up some phony lease documents, collect deposit & first month's rent (if not additional months) and hand over the keys. In these cases, the squatters were also victims. Something to think about before you go into your rental property w/ guns blazing declaring, "Castle Doctrine!"

Other squatters play the system knowing how to drag out the eviction process. The first few months they're good tenants. After that, they work the legal system, so they can live in the property for free for 12 months or longer. I know someone in CA who during pandemic had a bad tenant live 18 months in her property for free before they were finally evicted.

Many landlords live hours away from their properties. I know landlords who own rental properties in different states. What this tells you is, if you own a vacant property, then you, a property manager, or someone else you trust should drop by at least once a week to make sure people aren't trespassing/squatting.

Here, the best you can hope for if you are a neighbor of squatters is they finally burn the house to the ground.
One place in the news recently has been on fire multiple times. The city just puts up a will you please leave sign that gets torn down.

This is also recent, article leaves out that the invaders were telling the police that they had lived there for a year and ran the Elderly couple out of the house with a dog.
They did bring up guns in the house though.
https://www.kgw.com/article/ne...doff%20with%20police.

Saw this article today…

https://www.foxnews.com/us/squ...lution-sight-problem

Homeowners across the country tormented by squatters find themselves tied up in lengthy and expensive legal battles to get control of their properties back – and one expert warns many others can find themselves victims.

Attorney Jim Burling told Fox News Digital that any home unoccupied for a stretch can be a target of squatters.

"I think it's a fairly big problem and I think it's pretty hard to avoid," said Burling, who is vice president of legal affairs for Pacific Legal Foundation. Burling said squatters took over a neighbor's home after the owner died and eventually had to be removed by police.

The main rub on true adverse possession is the paying of the taxes. Almost none of these folks are gonna pay the taxes due. And if they pay my taxes and I pay my taxes the city will refund one for those checks and somebody will notice. Usually I hear of this when it’s discovered the fence was off by a foot or 2 on the wrong side and the owner who had benefit of the extra feet of land wants to claim it by saying well it’s been that way for 20-30 years. But they never paid the taxes…

My mother in law…. This woman occasionally would take in roommates. No lease nothing. Just a handshake deal with an acquaintance usually from church always another female who was down on her luck and let them live in a spare bedroom with bathroom and kitchen use for a few hundred a month. Practically free by Bay Area standards. One got real ugly about moving out after she was asked. MIL had to pay a lawyer to properly evict her even though my MIL had lived there as her primary res entire time. 30 day notice, the whole bit. Was a complete nightmare. And MIL is in her later 70s and small of stature and this was starting to become a frightening thing where she didn’t want to go home to her own house. My wife had to get involved and tell this person to get out. And be there when eviction notice was served This was in CA about 5 years ago I would have said you got 72 hours and then toss her crap in the yard and change the locks. Pray you don’t live in a commie area with a strong tenants union organisation.

quote:

Originally posted by ElToro:
... tenants union organisation.

A what? That's a thing?

quote:

Originally posted by BurtonRW:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
In Texas they could be removed easily and quickly via legal process. An owner would have to know they were there and do nothing, for a long time, for them to gain any even potential rights.

I'm curious - how quick would that work in Texas?

I assume OP didn't mean adverse possession when he said squatter's rights, but here in MD, your only legal remedy against run of the mill squatters is a wrongful detainer action, which can take weeks at a minimum (more likely months) depending on the jurisdiction.

-Rob

A forcible entry and detainer (eviction) would take about three weeks in Texas, even for a residential eviction. It is quick for legal process. Another ten days and the writ of possession would issue, if the squatter refused to leave after the eviction. The writ would direct the constable to eject the person, forcibly, if necessary.

So what determines a squatter vs someone who just enters your home and says they now live there?

Is there a legal definition?

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by ElToro:
... tenants union organisation.

A what? That's a thing?

San Francisco has a group the www.sftu.org since 1970. If you are a landlord you do not want this gang going after you. Recall SF population is like 65% renters. And they vote. Why the laws are upside down and no surprise they pass laws against property owners by people with no skin in the game.

I have had coworkers, usually very 20 somethings with not a lot of life experience get yanked around by landlords and they will call the tenants union and get free legal help.

Oh and if you’re a “protected tenant” yes that’s the term, your golden. Your life is over if you’re the landlord. This is any elderly 60+, disabled, chronically ill ( good luck defining that) and I think tenants with school age kids during the school year. And as a landlord, the SF .gov rent board tells you what percentage increase you are allowed per year.

Sorry for the thread drift. The above info is for leased apartments. Not squatters.

Good lord.

I’ve got clients who are apartment building owners. I’ve heard some absolute horror stories. I mean to the point you’d want to call the bank and say here’s your keys good luck or hope to high heaven your building gets hit by lightning and burns to the ground. So you can start over. Kinda. I’ve had clients with a building fire and MONTHS later. After insurance paid for the tenant to live elsewhere they get to move back to their newly remodeled unit at the old rent controlled rate

Tenant buyouts of 25,50 even 100k a unit are not unheard of when budgeting to buy a building full of rent controlled tenants that have been living there since Mr Ed was on first run on TV. So they can move out and you can move new people in at market (obscene)rents.

Seems to me you could play the game by their rules. Wait till they leave for any reason, go in, change the locks, wait for them to call the cops who will say it’s a civil matter and wait for the squatter to sue you. Not likely. Less likely to win.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
but it's not going to take a dilapidated house and pay the property taxes and maintain it against liability from others.

A minor nit: The government rarely pays taxes. If you rent a tie down space or a hangar from the government, it is not at all uncommon for them to hit you with a tax bill for “possessory interest”. “Yeah, we charged you rent to use it and now we’re effectively going to charge you property tax for having used it.”

I had an interesting thing happen at the local fueling station a few years ago. I pulled in to buy red diesel for the ranch and there was a city bus fueling with red diesel.

For background, the California Highway Patrol has these wire gadgets that hold a cotton ball that they will periodically shove down the diesel fill port on on-road diesel vehicles. If that cotton ball comes out even remotely pink, you are looking at a $10,000 fine. The government gets kinda pissy when you don’t pay the taxes they want.

Anyway, I pull up, see this guy putting red diesel in the city bus and just start laughing my ass off. He is surprised and relieved that I’m amused and asks why? I said I was surprised it took this long for the government to figure out how to dodge the taxes they make the rest of us pay. He was surprised I wasn’t mad, as the last several people seeing him put red diesel in a city bus read him the riot act. I asked him if he made the policy decision or personally kept more money in his own pocket based on which pump he used. Apparently this concept never occurred to the folks screaming at him.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Seems to me you could play the game by their rules. Wait till they leave for any reason, go in, change the locks, wait for them to call the cops who will say it’s a civil matter and wait for the squatter to sue you. Not likely. Less likely to win.

This is an option. Your analysis is not wrong. Just be sure not to breach the peace in your self-help eviction. Even if you are justified in breaching the peace, is it really worth the ride downtown and potential charges?

Taking pedropcola's hypothetical one step further: should the squatters be present when you and friends remove their stuff (and them) from the premises, and an altercation take place, if the homeowner group were to say "we've never seen these people before," or "yeah they came up and tried to pitch tents in the back yard, and one of them came in our house," who's to say the squatters are not the liars? Seems all you need to do is move the argument from a squatters issue to a trespasser issue, and the cops would side with you?

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

Glad we keep it simple here and ascribe to none of that nonsense listed above.

It is super easy here.
Not on the deed, lease, or legally married to someone on the deed or lease, GOODBYE!!!

Yup, you can live with someone for years and years, pay rent, have stuff in the house, one day they get pissed at you and want to kick you out and you are not on paper there, See you later.
Can’t count how many fellas got caught cheating by their baby mama and out they go. Granted I have to stand there for 30 minutes or so as they stuff their Jordan shoes and video game collection in trash bags while their ride comes and gets them.
Makes life so much easier that way. Are you on the lease or deed, Yes or No, married to someone who is? No, buts, no wells, simple yes or no.
Yes you stay, no you go, simple. Refuse, then well you’ll be staying at the detention facility for the night.
Trespass or Burglary for you.

Man, we're only one state away and it's totally different. If somebody's lived there long enough to establish residency (just a couple of weeks), or taken steps such as getting mail there or claims to have paid rent or assisted in the upkeep of the household, we can't kick them out. They don't even have to have paperwork...just claim to have done one of those things...which of course they all do.

The homeowner had to file an eviction, which typically takes at least 30 days. There's a method for an emergency process, but the situation has to meet certain criteria.

It's enough to make you not want to ever let anybody stay in your house.

I don't know the laws in WV, and they may be friendly to your position. But in a lot of states if you did what your saying, you'd end up in jail, may face civil liability, and get to watch LE escort the squatters back in to your house.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
Someone breaks into my house while I’m gone and tries to steal it they’d be gone the next day, guaranteed.

This is a disturbing but not surprising trend.

Law makers need to act quickly to remedy this especially now that it will become prevalent due to people learning it's an easy way to live rent free.

Not sure what the easy fix would be but it could start with any type of dispute classified as squatter related gets an expedited court hearing within 5 days.

This is the kind of crap we get when the rule of law breaks down, gotta worry about someone taking over your property while you're on vacation....

.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
I don't know the laws in WV, and they may be friendly to your position. But in a lot of states if you did what your saying, you'd end up in jail, may face civil liability, and get to watch LE escort the squatters back in to your house.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
Someone breaks into my house while I’m gone and tries to steal it they’d be gone the next day, guaranteed.

In WV, if the property isn’t abandoned or obviously vacant, someone can’t just waltz in and claim residency out of the blue. They can be arrested for trespassing in the spot. If they somehow reside for 10 or more years uninterrupted, you’d have to go through an eviction process. If you went on a weeks vacation and came home to find trespassers without permission, they’d be arrested and/or removed.