Worrisome.

“China has applied to launch almost 200,000 satellites into space, sparking concerns that the nation seeks to build a 'mega-constellation'.

On December 29, a newly formed body called the Institute of Radio Spectrum Utilisation and Technological Innovation filed applications for two satellite constellations.

Each of these enormous collections of spacecraft, dubbed CTC-1 and CTC-2, would contain 96,714 satellites spread over 3,660 different orbits.

If completed, China's new mega-constellation would dwarf even SpaceX's bold ambition to put 49,000 Starlink satellites in orbit.

As reported by China in Space, the Nanjing University of Aeronautics claims that the satellites will focus on: 'Low-altitude electromagnetic space security, integrated security defence systems, electromagnetic space security assessment of airspace, and low-altitude airspace safety supervision services.'

DailyMail article:
https://mol.im/a/15466149

This could be a problem for amateur radio. Hopefully their request gets denied.

Currently there are about 12,000 satellites up there. Imagine another 200,000 of them (in addition to the 90,000 that Musk wants up there).

I don't like it.

Applied to who? The UN.

quote:

These applications were filed with the International Telecommunications Union (ITU), a UN body that allocates spectrum allowances in space.

If the UN says no, what's to stop China from doing it anyway?

Anton Petrov has a video discussing the idea that space close to Earth could become so crowded with orbital satellites, junk, and debris as to make sending people into space unacceptably dangerous. That caused me to think again about the Fermi paradox and why we haven’t been visited by space aliens. If other species cluttered the area around their planet to the point that they couldn’t leave safely, they obviously wouldn’t be developing interstellar travel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b66ZZ05wKC0&t=130s

Forget plastic in the oceans.....time to dredge space!

quote:

Originally posted by Paten:
Applied to who? The UN.

quote:

These applications were filed with the International Telecommunications Union (ITU), a UN body that allocates spectrum allowances in space.

If the UN says no, what's to stop China from doing it anyway?

This was my first thought as well. China is not going to ask permission from anyone.
The United States should get out of the UN and NATO.

" 'Low-altitude electromagnetic space security, integrated security defence systems, electromagnetic space security assessment of airspace, and low-altitude airspace safety supervision services.'
"

Sounds peaceful, and for the good of all mankind.

The UN? Seriously? When has the debate club ever stopped anything? What happens if they say no and China launches anyway? China has veto power on the security council. Better fire up the space laser.

quote:

Originally posted by Paten:
Applied to who? The UN.

quote:

These applications were filed with the International Telecommunications Union (ITU), a UN body that allocates spectrum allowances in space.

If the UN says no, what's to stop China from doing it anyway?

Ideally the rest of the security council.

If China carries out their plan the late evening and early morning dark skies will be ruined.

https://platform.leolabs.space....space/visualization
This link is to the active visualization of the TRACKED orbital debris. It shows the scope of the issue.

This is a good paper on current debris levels and the tracking of it. There will inevitably be collisions in the future.

Humans managed to put an incredible amount of debris into orbit and a lot of it isn’t coming down anytime soon. I think a lot of people would be shocked at how fragile the ISS.

It’s like Mount Everest on a planet sized scale; the destination is so far and challenging to reach that you have to accept leaving permanent debris in your wake. And, no one is going to want to foot the bill to clean up.

Maybe having a permanent armed presence in space will spur some clearing of debris in orbit for personnel safety. Some way of degrading the orbit or debris to burn up would have to be applied. “Orbital Debris Removal” would be a a cool MOS.


200,000 sounds like propaganda numbers but China has always played the numbers game. They could care less about how many tons of debris they leave in orbit. Chinese production would also have to keep up with satellite attrition in orbit and during any launch failures. They would have to make production large scale to produce enough.

It sounds ridiculous but they could offer “subscription” satellite services to states and other actors that couldn’t otherwise afford the outlay of capital to start a satellite intelligence agency or direct satellite support for their military/intelligence operations. That would pay for satellites in orbit and also allow
Beijing to flex some political control. A dictator who successfully suppresses a coup or a Beijing supported group getting active satellite support during their operations would pay well for services that otherwise would only be available to their enemies.

This is just a new technology and frontier.



I think I’m going to go watch Space Cowboys.

Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
If China carries out their plan the late evening and early morning dark skies will be ruined.

Stargazing with some families this last year at our place made me realize something that made me feel like an old man.

An entire generation has grown up with satellites and the ISS regularly in their field of view looking through the telescope. There is so much man made in the night sky it’s arguably never going back.


Also that I need to bite the bullet and get Starlink.

quote:

Originally posted by ThunTiger:

This link is to the active visualization of the TRACKED orbital debris. It shows the scope of the issue.
.

corrected link


That's really neat!

My parents were stargazing on the back porch. They saw a strange light cross the night sky. The next day Sputnik was announced to the world

Back in the 1960's in NJ, the skies were dark and the stars brilliant. It was a treat to see a satellite pass by. There were published schedules that hobbyists had to identify which satellite they were seeing.

quote:

Originally posted by Paten:
Applied to who? The UN.

quote:

These applications were filed with the International Telecommunications Union (ITU), a UN body that allocates spectrum allowances in space.

If the UN says no, what's to stop China from doing it anyway?

That was going to be my question: Applied to who?
Is Earth a member of some inter-galactic agency we earthlings are unaware of and didn't vote for?
Oh, the UN? What a joke!

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:

quote:

Originally posted by Paten:
Applied to who? The UN.

quote:

These applications were filed with the International Telecommunications Union (ITU), a UN body that allocates spectrum allowances in space.

If the UN says no, what's to stop China from doing it anyway?

Ideally the rest of the security council.

Umm, China is a permanent member of the UN security council. Permanent members have veto power which means the security council, as a body, can’t do jack shit if one permanent member doesn’t go along.

China knows no rules or agreements or consideration of any kind. They will do everything they want to do in space that they can get away with.

I heard the space junk tracking systems will at some point not be able keep up in some way, and after a certain inflection point in the density of working satellites, it will become more difficult to put up any more, and compromise the viability of future launches and space travel.