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| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
A small general aviation aircraft flying near President Trump’s private golf club in New Jersey was intercepted by a U.S. Air Force fighter jet Saturday afternoon, according to officials. The U.S. military said an F-16 jet intercepted the plane flying “without proper clearances or communications” at around 12:30 p.m. in the temporary flight restriction zone around the president’s Bedminster, N.J. golf course, where Trump is spending the weekend. Continental U.S. North American Aerospace Defense Command, in charge of airspace surveillance for the continental U.S., said the intercepted aircraft landed at an airport in Pittstown, N.J. without incident, where local law enforcement met the pilot. White House spokeswoman Lindsay Walters said the pilot was “interviewed by law enforcement and deemed a non-threat.” Since 9/11, the military, under Operation Noble Eagle, has made more than 1,800 intercepts of nonmilitary aircraft. Walters said the F-16 had followed “standard practice in such cases.” Trump arrived in New Jersey Friday afternoon, and was scheduled to depart for Washington Sunday. Link How does a F-16 “intercept” a private single engine airplane going say, 120-150 knots? Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | ||
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Member |
I was thinking the same thing. I guess if the F-16 blew by close enough it would catch the private plane’s attention. Likely to cause a “stink” in the cockpit of the private plane, I would think.  ———- Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for thou art crunchy and taste good with catsup. | |||
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| Member |
The F-16 has a very high thrust to weight ratio. Minimum speed isn't the issue, but angle of attack. The aircraft can fly slowly at a high angle of attack with a lot of thrust. How much, how fast, and what angle depend on weight, temperature, and pressure altitude. Both tactical aircraft, and helicopters are used to intercept intruding aircraft on flight restricted areas. Just after 09/11 I was approaching the Seattle area when a F-15 intercepted a light airplane. I certainly wouldn't want to be the one called on the carpet for violating a presidential temporary flight restriction, especially if an intercept was involved. | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
That's great. What’s the procedure, assuming they can’t raise the guy on the radio? Do they pass by with a sign on the window, or just make rude gestures, or what? Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Probably in a manner to get the pilot's attention, then either weave behind it or circle the target. If it doesn't respond and meets ROE, tough luck for the dumbass GA pilot who forgot to check the NOTAMS. ETA, to get his attention the Fighter would probably get close, like fly close aboard at a good rate of speed and cut right in front of the plane. After that you're probably going to get some flares in your face. If you don't respond to that, you deserve to get shot down. | |||
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"Member" |
Splash the zeros _____________________________________________________ Sliced bread, the greatest thing since the 1911. | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
And your response is what? Certain frequency? Squawk code? How do you show you are complying? I am sure this was covered while I was flying. The Presidents were in the area somewhat often, San Diego has restricted special use airspace all around, but I have no memory of what we were supposed to do if we blundered into trouble. I do remember laughing at a story of how they sent an F-4 after a student pilot flying down the coast in that restricted area near Oceanside. I’m sure it was a story, not a real life event. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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אַרְיֵה |
Here is a link to the description of intercept procedures in the Airman's Information Manual. I can't remember where I put my glasses down five minutes ago, but I remember very clearly, fifty-four years ago, my flight instructor telling me to read and learn this section "because it will be on the test." הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
I imagine they'll attempt to contact you on Guard, 121.5 AM. | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
HAHAHAAHAHA. That was my first thought, too. | |||
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Member |
Older video. Not relating to the occurrence in the OP. Intercepting a "Sez Nuh"  So much drama. | |||
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| Member |
The Aeronautical Information Manual, Chapter 5, Section 6, covers air intercept procedures. Specifically 5-6-13. https://www.faa.gov/air_traffi...hg_1_dtd_3-29-18.pdf What occurs depends on the nature of the situation, and where the intrusion occurs. In the Washington ADIZ (air defense intercept zone), for example, a warning light system is employed in addition to voice communications. Controllers will attempt to contact the aircraft, and efforts will be made on the emergency frequency (121.5). There are three phases of intercept; approach, identification, and post-intercept. If intercepted, the intercept aircraft will attempt identification from behind, and will get only as close as necessary to identify. Intercept occurs in phases, with approach being the first on the actual intercept. Once identified, if intruding, the intercepting aircraft will attempt communication via radio (if possible) and via hand signals and aircraft signals. The intercepted aircraft will be directed to follow the intercepting aircraft. Non compliant aircraft will be given divert maneuvers with the intercepting aircraft crossing the flight path of the intercepted aircraft, maintaining at least 500' separation. The interceptor will turn in the desired direction, and will indicate a landing by lowering gear. Wing rocking flashing lights, and other means of communication will be employed. Further non-compiance will result in a second pass, dispensing flares and other means of notification. Every effort will be made to avoid a wake turbulence encounter, or creating wake turbulence that might pose a hazard to the intercepted aircraft. Aircraft that are intercepted will respond by radio, hand signals, rocking wings, flashing lights, use of transponder, use of landing gear, and by following the interceptor. Every pilot is expected to know this information, and the source, and every pilot, student pilot through Airline Transport Pilot, is held accountable for it. | |||
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Political Cynic |
several times a year we become practice targets for the F16's to get certified for doing intercepts we have four specific profiles that we fly, the Viper driver figures out which one and we respond appropriately been 'thumped' by them just about every qualification round [B] Against ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC | |||
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Certified Plane Pusher |
Situation awareness is defined as a continuous extraction of environmental information, integration of this information with previous knowledge to form a coherent mental picture in directing further perception and anticipating future events. Simply put, situational awareness mean knowing what is going on around you. | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Hard to ignore that. | |||
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| אַרְיֵה |
I agree with you, that is how it should work. Great in theory, unfortunately it doesn't work in practice. I have held a Flight Instructor certificate for more than 50 years. I tell my trainees, until I'm blue in the face, "Monitor 121.5 on your # 2 radio. Always." When I give someone a Flight Review, I watch for this. Do you want to guess how many General Aviation pilots actually do this? My experience says, fewer than one percent. I seem to recall that the military radios had a receiver that did monitor UHF guard, way way back when I was involved with avionics maintenance in the Navy. If the radio was powered on, guard frequency was being monitored. Our civilian gear does not have that, so we have to remember to tune the second radio (most of us have two) to 121.5 and enable the receiver via the audio panel. Virtually nobody remembers this. I have never seen it on a store-bought checklist, either, although I do put it on my custom-built checklists. הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים | |||
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| Dances With Tornados |
This doesn't answer your question, but I think it's a great anecdote and great true story about our military members willing to give their life for us. I learned of this story years ago and have always remembered it. This link is from what happened on the day of September 11, 2011. I hope you appreciate these 2 F-16 pilots. LINK-F-16PilotsWillingToMakeUltimateSacrifice. | |||
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| Savor the limelight |
Anyway it wants? | |||
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| Member |
In a nutshell, the GA plane will follow the fighter. The fighter turns in the direction that he wants the Cessna to go. Get his attention first, then turn in direction away from TFR and the civilian plane turns that way. Or not and then it could get interesting. The system is set up that radio calls, while preferred and simpler, certainly aren’t necessary. | |||
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| Member |
I monitor guard when I have nothing else going on with another radio, but often I have each radio in use. In cruise, guard is generally there for those times when nothing else is happening. Often as not, the other radio is in use with ATIS or some other function. I also hear a lot of chatter on guard. | |||
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