quote:

and "brother"

Whoa whoa whoa. That was appropriated from the Hulkster himself. Let's not let anyone ruin a hearty "Brother!" for the rest of us.

Wait, what? Are you telling me that those guys selling "tactical sunglasses" and the like on TV aren't really SEALS? I'm crushed! I guess I better go cancel my order for a dozen pairs.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
The ones that talk too much are the wannabes and frauds, has been this way forever.

They are not called "Quiet Professionals" for nothing.

This has been my observation too. Real ones I know don't talk much about what they do, you have to ask them and get them to open up a little. My ex in-laws were friends with Vietnam CMOH recipient Sam Davis and from what I heard he was down to earth and did not brag about his service. His rescue of wounded soldiers was the basis of the scene in Forrest Gump.

But then once they start talking, they might tell you that some of the famous tactical blowhards touting their military experience and the "training programs" they sell, often lack real combat experience, and are not necessarily the great shooters they claim to be.

There was a talker at one place I worked. He claimed to have been a sniper but he didn't have a clue what the correct issued sniper weapons were in the branch of service he claimed to be in. Within a few minutes I wrote him off as a liar and didn't talk to him about such things anymore.

That said, watch "Flags of our Fathers" and learn the true story of the propaganda campaign that followed the raising of the flag on Iwo Jima. The guys that got the credit were not the actual soliders, but some "extras" they used to stage a recreation for the cameras after the battle was won. They became famous and toured the US drumming up war support to sell war bonds. Some had trainwreck lives aftewards.

So the military condoning exaggerations or narratives to gain support from the populace is nothing new. But anyone who has gotten a CMOH or other high award fraudulently should be found out and stripped of it and retroactively dishonorably discharged.

Seems every week there's another guy popping up in a video or on a podcast who shot bin laden.

Last year, we had the owner of a startup company trying to sell us a gunshot detection system.

It went as far as purchase orders being issued for the first location.

I cautioned our executives about the technology used, using a startup for such a large system across ten locations, and the owner and his claimed experience.

They kept telling me about all his special operations experience and I would just say “Yes, he tells me in every meeting and site walk-through.”

It got to the point where he spewed his BS one to many times and I just said “Stolen valor.” He said “What do you mean?” And I just smiled.

Every time after the next few months when he would start again I would just say “Stolen valor” and smile.

The project was finally cancelled when he could not deliver.

I was asked how I knew and I told them those that have been there and done that typically do not talk about it and they certainly do not brag about and advertise it.

Many years ago I worked with a person who claimed to be a SEAL. Being somewhat knowledgeable about firearms, his stories were interesting to this engineer. He claimed to have made a long range shot with a 30-caliber rifle. I questioned the bullet drop at that range, and he immediately gave a number of inches. I checked, and he was far off. Hmmm.

He would walk around the office looking down at the floor. I asked why. He said he was so used to looking for trip wires and booby traps that he just did it out of habit. Hmmm.

He would show me class materials from SEAL training...those ancient blue ink mimeograph copies. One packet of papers showed an instructor he claimed was Tom Clancy. Hmmm.

I finally challenged his recollection of being a SEAL. He confessed that he was not truly a SEAL, that he had begun BUD/S training, become injured, and washed out. Later, though, in the brown water navy, he had served and fought with SEALS. So, he viewed his acts as equivalent to being a SEAL. Finally, the truth.

He remained a friend.

I know a spook who’s done some real dangerous stuff since the 80s. He never talks about it. Not even to his wife. Back in the day he would be in hostile Islamic countries with his family. One morning he’d go to work and not come back for a few weeks. When he did come back, don’t ask, don’t tell. Even retired, he keeps quiet.

I hired a Marine 3 years ago. Recon. He served in Iraq and Afghanistan. When I ask him about what he did in both theaters his reply is "I love my country". A few stories of his escapades with his buddies but it stops there. Bad ass (incredible shooting skills at the range) but you'd never know it. Super nice guy and family man but for sure I wouldn't FAFO with him.

Here is my view in that they recruit two persons that are totally different.

One person is an outdoor person that hunted, fished, and camped out growing up.

The other person has none of these skills growing up and only learned what he was taught in the service.

I have read that the survival rate in Vietnam was sufficiently higher for the outdoor person.

Lot of money to be made nowadays. Like most stories, im sure they’re mostly true, with some embellishment.

As someone else said, the truest professionals tend to not talk about the things they did. I will tell cool or funny stories as much as possible without breaking clearances rules. But they 1-2 times I’ve been involved in bad or sad things, (and mine are nothing on the level of seals) I don’t talk about those.

I wouldn’t think they are statistically different from any other group of people. I’m sure they range between the quiet ones, the liars, and everything in between. It’s sad but you don’t need to look too far to find someone who will lie to get attention.