We've been putting off replacing an old acrylic/fiberglass shower in our master bath, and for Christmas my parents gifted us some money to be put towards remodeling that shower.

Our price range is $2k-$4k (ish).

We don't want another cheap builder-grade acrylic/fiberglass shower insert, but something like an Onyx setup is a bit out of our price range. Tile seems like it's a good middle ground for price vs. quality.

Does anyone have experience with the Schluter Kerdi system? One of the contractors we had come out today to bid the job recommended it, but said it would likely be a bit more than traditional tile methods. (We haven't seen the bid yet to know the price difference.)

What are the pros/cons over traditional tile?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RogueJSK,

I used Schluter Ditra in both of our showers. One was a prefab shower base I mortered in and the other was a tub with shower/surround. The Ditra is generally considered to be more reliably waterproof the backer board as far as I understand. Price will be higher because of material costs but I prefer working with drywall and Ditra as opposed to backer board and Redguard.

There are numerous manufacturers of this technology. Schluter, Wedi and Latticrete. Some differences in their products but basically the same technology. They use closed cell Styrofoam to engineer solutions which reduce the cost of tile bath room applications. I just remodeled my bath converting a 36" tub into a 42" wide shower. Used Latticrete.

Within these three manufacturers, Wedi is the most costly, Latticrete the least. However, the cost difference is marginal. In theory, the final remodel should be less costly than the more traditional methods (higher material costs lower labor costs). However, an added benefit is that these are pre-engineered solutions so there is less chance of a bad outcome. There are also some technical advantages as well.


Overall, don't be afraid to use any of these. Top quality in every way.

I've used Wedi bases and walls on many jobs. Normally when the shower floor is getting tiled or there has been a concern with leaks and the customer wants a 100% waterproof and sealed backing.

Are you tiling the shower floor? Any custom building being done in the shower such as a bench or footrest.

If your going with a plastic/fiberglass base and cost is an issue I would use the traditional cement board.

These other materials are great but really shine when doing a tile shower floor and/or custom work in the shower.

I know the Wedi board setup with a standard base/walls and one niche will run $700+ for a simple standard shower.

Don't do a traditional cement/mud job. Just don't. They can't compete with the longevity of these new systems, or the flexibility.

Gone are the days of a vinyl or copper pan, with 2-4+ inches of mud, the total thickness of the whole assembly limiting what can be done, as far as floor height and the need for a curb.

I have worked with all the available systems, and I like:

https://vimproducts.com/installation/

http://www.quickdrainusa.com/s...ntial-shower-drains/

They all use sloped panels, some, like the Vim, can just be purchased as a drain assembly.

The key with all of them is the fiberglass backed joints, in combination with the roll-on waterproofing. Some use full coverage fiberglass.

They all offer flexibility and water protection that the olde fashioned way can't compete with, particularly for a zero clearance or curbless shower. All with less material, less weight, and less overall thickness built up of the floor assembly.

I would choose the drain assembly that works for you, some are easier to install without opening the ceiling below than others.

quote:

Originally posted by comet24:
Are you tiling the shower floor? Any custom building being done in the shower such as a bench or footrest.

Yes, we're tiling the floor. No custom building like that.

Three walls and a floor, with a swinging door.

I've never used the foam panels or the like, but I did a shower remodel with acrylic pan, Durock walls, and that Schlueter felt on the joints and all coated with Mapei Aqua Defense, then tiled. On the floor I used that Schlueter orange plastic mat for tile underlayment.

Everything turned out great, and as sketchy as the panels seem, I don't think I'd hesitate to use it, given how well the other Schlueter products perform and install.

Took out a 5’ tub, put in a curbless walk in shower. Tiled entire shower (floor to ceiling) and all of floor. Used Schluter system for all of it.

Did entire job myself.

It was definitely more work, as the Schluter was set in mortar then after that set up the tile was set in more mortar on the Schluter system. Rest of the details were a little more complex, but it wasn’t too bad.

Would I do it again? Reluctantly I’ll say yes. It works great, we love our shower and there have been absolutely zero problems. But it was a lot of work. Careful, slow, detailed work and it came out as designed.

quote:

Originally posted by comet24:
I know the Wedi board setup with a standard base/walls and one niche will run $700+ for a simple standard shower.

We were quoted $1200 for the Schluter system, for a floor, three walls, and one niche in a roughly 4 x 3 x 8 foot enclosure.

+ $800 Labor. (Fairly straightforward removal and install, using the existing plumbing.)

+ Tile and door ($1000 or less. Wife knows several folks in the building supply industry, so she's trying to get us a good deal on the tile and door by sourcing them on her own.)

Should put us at ~$3k total, which is right where we want to be.

We have a few more guys coming in tomorrow and Saturday to bid it, but it's good to know that we should be able to stay well within budget.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by comet24:
Are you tiling the shower floor? Any custom building being done in the shower such as a bench or footrest.

Yes, we're tiling the floor. No custom building like that.

Three walls and a floor, with a swinging door.

If your tiling the shower floor 100% use one of the new systems. I would never do a mud base on a shower pan today. To much labor and the newer systems really are that much better.

Go with what your contractor is comfortable and familiar with. They are all fairly similar.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
+ $800 Labor. (Fairly straightforward removal and install, using the existing plumbing.)

Something worth noting:

The existing plumbing may not drain a stand up shower adequately.

Depending on the age of the home, the tub may not be vented in a way that will drain a stand up shower fast enough. If you're doing a curb, it means you might build up some water in the enclosure.

If you're doing curbless, you might have a problem.

Often, we've had to bump the drain size to 2," or get a vent down to the drain, all depending on how it's plumbed, and how much water is coming out of the shower head(s). Thankfully "body sprays" have fallen out of favor, and people typically do his/hers shower heads or a shower head and hand spray.

You can _possibly_ use the existing plumbing, but it's worth making sure and not assuming it will be fine. If you're doing it yourself, you need to look at what is there and make sure it is not back pitched, and sized correctly. If you're hiring pros, they should be doing this without you insisting, but you might ask anyway.

What is a functioning tub drain, could be an issue as a stand up shower. What is a slow tub drain, probably will be a problem as a stand up shower.

It's not a tub. We're replacing an existing center drain 4x3 walk-in shower. Just upgrading from a cheaper acrylic/fiberglass liner that was put in when the house was built in 2005 to some nicer tile.

(The builder must have blown most of his bathroom budget on putting in a fancy whirlpool tub with nice tile surrounding it, and then went cheap with the walk-in shower next to it. But we use the shower 99.9% of the time...)

It will have a small curb plus a door, similar in layout to the existing shower.

And I'm definitely not doing it myself. My shower renovation skills stop at swapping out a shower head or replacing a cartridge.

I put in a walk in tiled shower, did it myself. It is actually kind of a Roman tub, its made to hold about a foot of water. Water is pulled from the shower and sprayed thru a 12 jet body spa. Also has a bench on 3 sides. I used dry pack mortar, 400 pounds of it, then Laticrete 9235. Used a drain with weep holes to drain water that makes it thru the granite and grout and gets to the Laticrete membrane. Its been working flawlessly since 2002.

Total cost went up a bit.

The cost for the Schluter Kerdi system, Kerdi install, and tile install is still the same at ~$2k.

But the wife got a bit distracted from tile bargain hunting, and found a certain type of embossed/debossed tile she couldn't live without, plus wanted a pebble-style floor, so we ended up spending ~$1300 on tile, grout, edging, and other materials.

And once the tile is in we'll be getting a custom frameless glass door fabricated and installed by a glass company for ~$1200, rather than having a premade door installed. (It was only ~$400 more than the doors the wife liked, and comes with a warranty and professional glass company install.)

Total's up to around $4500 now.

Old door and shower liner were removed today. We scraped out the old spray-in foam insulation in the exposed areas, which they had done a horrible job with anyway. The middle half of the walls were bare and uninsulated, since it had all run/sagged down into the hollow spaces behind the shower liner. And one wall is an exterior wall, so that's especially bad.

We'll be re-insulating with Rockwool batts this weekend, which will require a little bit of a road trip since none of the local hardware stores have Rockwool in stock. Luckily, we can do it with one pack of 12 batts, so it's only adding ~$45 to the total cost.

Tile guy starts Tuesday with the Kerdi install.

I rebuilt two from the basic builder grade. I did not use the schluter system in the show, but used it on the osb flooring. In the shower I went back to the studs, inspected for moisture and went with a concrete basin with a rubber water barrier up 3" over the drain, then cement over the rubber liner. The walls were all cement board, taped and then sealed with red bond (painted on rubber).
I then tiled over that. If you want to see pictures, I have a few I could send. It was inspected and passed and never leaked over 10 years. My total cost for a 40"x34" shower was $1640 including tile.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
Don't do a traditional cement/mud job. Just don't. They can't compete with the longevity of these new systems, or the flexibility.

Gone are the days of a vinyl or copper pan, with 2-4+ inches of mud, the total thickness of the whole assembly limiting what can be done, as far as floor height and the need for a curb.

I have worked with all the available systems, and I like:

https://vimproducts.com/installation/

http://www.quickdrainusa.com/s...ntial-shower-drains/

They all use sloped panels, some, like the Vim, can just be purchased as a drain assembly.

The key with all of them is the fiberglass backed joints, in combination with the roll-on waterproofing. Some use full coverage fiberglass.

They all offer flexibility and water protection that the olde fashioned way can't compete with, particularly for a zero clearance or curbless shower. All with less material, less weight, and less overall thickness built up of the floor assembly.

I would choose the drain assembly that works for you, some are easier to install without opening the ceiling below than others.

Arc, I watched the ~20 minute installation video on that site and had a question. The video reflected a shower pan installed over a joist system. I get how that install works. But how is the Vim Products shower pan installed over a concrete slab foundation such that you can have zero curb?

quote:

how is the Vim Products shower pan installed over a concrete slab foundation such that you can have zero curb?

Wouldn't you have to recess the drain and maintain pitch to the drain?

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

how is the Vim Products shower pan installed over a concrete slab foundation such that you can have zero curb?

Wouldn't you have to recess the drain and maintain pitch to the drain?

The VIM system has a pre-pitched (1/4" per foot) shower pan (if you will) that you use with their system. That 'pan' has to be set in a recess cut in a wooden floor to insure its flush with the rest of the floor around it, resulting in a curbless shower pan. Really neat to watch it installed on the video, but I'm a bit unsure how it would be installed over concrete given you couldn't recess it in a concrete slab like you can in a wood floor. So do you install the VIM pan 'on' the concrete floor and then raise the bathroom floor to match it? I have no idea, but I bet Arc does.

If I was going to do it in your bath, I'd get their 12x12 drain kit, and saw cut around the drain to let it in, to begin the pitch.

Usually with a zero-clearance, you're redoing the whole bath floor, and can change height at the door.

The pre-pitched panel is nice, and they give you extra fiberglass to go beyond it.

Using the small panel that is just the drain, is worth it for the way the drain assembly itself goes together.

With a glass door, I like a 1" lip over zero clearance, just so you can still swing the door over a bath mat.

I read about these re-do's and cringe. Being a plumber I decided to go with Kohler's one piece acrylic unit's, one 5' bath and shower, and two 4' showers with built in seats.

They are all complete enclosures (floor, walls and ceiling) and I must say, 20 years later-- they are as beautiful as new.

I love tile, and we have plenty in our home, but just floors.

I'm in plenty of homes, mostly all old style systems (mortar, greenboard, hardiboard and tile. Most develop problems, most small, but still not perfection.

My view at start was do it once and done, thankfully I think I achieved that. Only thing I can see being redone is shower doors.