My home was built in 2004, and it has a completely finished basement. I have been wanting to add a basement apartment, for soon-to-be married children, and later just to rent out. To do so, I wanted to squeeze a stacked washer/dryer laundry in my furnace room. The original electricians used a Homeline 30/40 panel, an filled up all forty circuits. I figured the best solution was to add a new sub-panel.

Unfortunately I didn't really get a good pic of the original panel, but you can see it in this pic over to the right before I started tearing into it. This pic also shows the new sub already mounted. I used a piece of rigid conduit coupler to make the connection between the two panels.


I pulled all of the 15a circuits out of the right panel, and dropped them over to the new sub. They were fortunately long enough since most of them were way down low in the original panel, and the new sub is a bit higher. A few circuits required me to splice in the main panel, run up the gutter, and over to the new sub. I kept all of the 20a and 240v circuits in the original panel. Here's the original panel after I was all through:


Here is the new sub all wired up:


Here they are side by side:


Being a little paranoid about house fires, I decided to use as many AFCI breakers as possible, even though Utah has deleted the requirement to use any arc fault protection anywhere. Also, now that I have a grand kid running around, I decided to use GFCI throughout the entire house on every 120v receptacle. Because I was dealing with an existing install and not starting from scratch, many of the wires were too short for the new smart breakers, so I had to do a bit of splicing. Especially for the grounded conductors (neutrals). Pros seem to hate using crimp sleeves, but I love Buchanan crimps with a C-24 tool and an insulating cap. Nice and secure. Perhaps the pros hate them because they are more expensive, require a special tool, and cannot be disassembled easily compared to a wire-nut. Sometimes I used a Wago here and there, depending on my mood.

Here's a sample of a Buchanan crimp tool splice. I think I'll make up all my neutrals this way at one of my duplexes where I am doing a couple of multi wire circuits:


Also, if you see my original panel, there were some blue-buttoned AFI breakers, which were required for bedrooms at the time in Utah. As it turns out, they were recalled, so Square D sent me back the green-button AFI breakers. I used them for lighting circuits, used purple button AFCI/GFCI breakers on receptacles, and used white button AFCI breakers where I wanted a local GFCI outlet instead of a combination breaker (kitchen counters & bathrooms). A plug-on-neutral panel sure is a lot tidier than the older, pigtail only panel.

The only thing really left to do is to install a little box of some sort for the Sense energy monitor cables to properly exit the panel and look nicer. I'm about ready to start patching my wallboard.

Thanks for reading. I'm mostly just really happy to be done with the electrical so I can move onto installing a pocket door.

ETA: One last thing. I have a main breaker in the sub panel because that was the only panel I could find at the time during the Covid shortages. There were no Homeline lug-only panels anywhere close, and I had already removed the knockout before I thought about converting it to lugs. I labeled the cover to remind anyone that the main breaker does not disconnect the other panel.

Very nice clean work.

Beautiful work! I’d bet the inspector will be impressed.

I'd want a forth wire for the isolated ground for a true 4-wire setup.

Not a fan of using a chase connection throuth a painted surface for a reliable connection.

Back in the old days, they'd solder that Buchanan connection after crimping.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
I'd want a forth wire for the isolated ground for a true 4-wire setup.

Not a fan of using a chase connection throuth a painted surface for a reliable connection.

Back in the old days, they'd solder that Buchanan connection after crimping.

There is a piece of 6awg solid binding the two panels. If you look at the picture if the sub panel, you can just make it out before it enters the chase.

I’m also not the biggest fan of relying on the panel for bonding. Whenever I’ve run EMT, I’ve always added a grounding conductor. A little more pricey, but worth it for piece of mind.

Totally done now. It took me awhile to get all the breakers. Now, every 120v circuit in the house is both AFCI/GFCI protected. Every 240v circuit is GFI protected, with the exception of the A/C compressor.

Where did I not follow the (2023 NEC) code?

1) I am not putting "AFCI/GFCI Protected" stickers on every receptacle cover. They look like crap, especially after they start to age. Besides, EVERY circuit is protected, so it should be obvious. I'll put a sign over my front door if necessary .
2) I am not installing a GFCI breaker on the A/C compressor. Since there's no receptacle, I don't see the need. I may try one out in the future, if I feel like it and find an extra 40a 240v GFCI.
3) I don't have lug covers on the sub panel. It was a main breaker panel originally (during covid, all I could find). I'll add those later when I remember to get some while I'm at Lowe's.

The completed sub-panel. Future electricians will hate me for all those crimp connections, but I like them. Very secure. They can come over to the cemetery and bitch at me about it when I'm gone.


The new panel next to the existing single panel. You probably cannot see, but all of the 15a circuits are in the new panel, and all of the 240v and 20a 120v are in the older panel. The reason that all of the 120v 20a breakers are not purple buttons (AFCI/GFCI), but only white button (AFCI only) is because I wanted to keep the local GFCI receptacles for some circuits (bathrooms and kitchens).


I know this probably isn't very interesting for most here, but this was a bit of work for me, and a bit expensive. I feel it turned out well. BTW, there have been zero issues with nuisance tripping of those breakers. The internet is on fire with posts from old electricians about nuisance tripping. Perhaps that was on first generation breakers, or maybe Square D is better? I do have a Brother laser printer that was causing problems at first, but a firmware update to the printer addressed it and fixed the problem.

I also switched out every receptacle in the house to spec grade TR. All of the existing receptacles were the cheapest ones, and they were all back stabbed. In the process, I found three grounds that were open because the green wire nut was loose (I twisted and crimped them all now). I found another where the ground was touching the neutral, creating a ground fault (actually, the smart breaker I installed found it for me). Also, two of my four 240v appliances were wired incorrectly. My house has four-wire 240v circuits, and the appliances that were here when I bought the house all had the chassis bound to the neutral conductor.

I'd bet that the majority of people on this forum have their 240v appliances wired incorrectly. The incompetent delivery people just see all the green wires and put them all under the same ground bolt. Or they don't remove the grounding strap or tab. It's easy to test. If your range has a NEMA 14-50p whip (4 prongs), test for continuity between the ground and neutral prong. There should be none. If your range has a NEMA 6-50p whip (3 prongs), test for continuity between the neutral prong and the body of your appliance. You should have continuity. It may be working fine either way, but it can create a dangerous condition in the case of a fault, if your appliance whip is installed incorrectly. You'll either have neutral current on the EGC, energizing all of your grounded appliance's chassis during a fault, or you will have an inability to trip the breaker and clear a fault, depending on the wiring error (also leading to a dangerous, energized appliance cabinet). We had a kid in my neighborhood killed twenty years ago due to the later condition. Electrocuted when he touched the dryer.

I was surprised about the problems with my finish electrical. It was done by a licensed professional in 2004 when the house was built. I guess the electrician cannot double check every termination his apprentice makes. Having a pro contract the work doesn't necessarily mean everything was done professionally, apparently.

On to patching sheetrock.

Sorry, I'm not seeing your flux capacitor.

Nice work.
I do see the ground entering the chase.

*I'm one which will not have a refrigerator or freezer on a gfci.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Sorry, I'm not seeing your flux capacitor.

Flux Capicators are currently on back order and they are not even taking orders for them.

I don’t know if you have OREILLY Auto Parts stores where you live. They are a very large chain of auto parts stores across a lot of the USA. They’re for real.

If you go to their website OREILLY Auto Parts and plug in part number 121G into the search bar you’ll find a listing for Flux Capicator, currently not available.

Why? I don’t know, I guess someone at OREILLYS did this as a bit of fun and a little bit of publicity.

Be sure to scroll down just a tad and read the Requirements and other info.

Here is Part Number 121G link
.

That looks awesome! I was taught to leave an extra several inches of tail on every connection in case something needs moved. While that does provide for extra flexibility, it looks like hell and makes a crowded box. I like yours better.

looks great but that is a lot of breakers controlled by a 60 AMP breaker. did the basement really need all those?

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
I'd want a forth wire for the isolated ground for a true 4-wire setup.

Not a fan of using a chase connection throuth a painted surface for a reliable connection.

Back in the old days, they'd solder that Buchanan connection after crimping.

There is a piece of 6awg solid binding the two panels. If you look at the picture if the sub panel, you can just make it out before it enters the chase.

I’m also not the biggest fan of relying on the panel for bonding. Whenever I’ve run EMT, I’ve always added a grounding conductor. A little more pricey, but worth it for piece of mind.

You say it's there, but I don't see any bond/EGC. Also depending on inspectors mood bond bushings would be required here. So I always used bond bushings to avoid redoing work or having a customer think I did it wrong.

What is going on here?

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
What is going on here?

Well clearly he forgot his licorice while contemplating the shooting range in his basement.
{based on our discussion 5 years ago, you know I have almost no idea what's actually going on here! }

Looks like you have a breaker for every outlet in your house...

bob

quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:
looks great but that is a lot of breakers controlled by a 60 AMP breaker. did the basement really need all those?

Breakers are there to protect the wire. The feeder wire is a 4awg CU, so I could use a 100a breaker if I wanted, but I already had some 70a breakers laying around, so I didn’t spend another $80-100 on a larger rated one. The total load on the sub panel has never topped 10 amps so far. It’s all LED lighting and low draw receptacles, like bedrooms and dens. The kitchen/bathrooms and all 240v loads remain in the original panel.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
What is going on here?

I’m unsure what you are asking. It’s for the second kitchen range.

quote:

Originally posted by rbert0005:
Looks like you have a breaker for every outlet in your house...

bob

Yea, it looks like a lot, but I added no circuits except for a downstairs laundry. All the circuits in the new sub panel came from the tandem breakers in the other panel. I eliminated all the tandems and moved them to the new sub panel. It’s a lot less crowded to have the twenty circuits moved to the new panel instead of being crammed in the original one. I wish I had taken a picture before I started.

quote:

Pros seem to hate using crimp sleeves, but I love Buchanan crimps with a C-24 tool and an insulating cap. Nice and secure. Perhaps the pros hate them because they are more expensive, require a special tool, and cannot be disassembled easily compared to a wire-nut.

Depends on the pro I guess. The guy we use for our ag electrical on the ranch loves them. Of course, he is a “Do it once, do it right, it costs what it costs.” kind of guy. He laughs at the multimillion dollar houses built locally where they staple romex into the walls and backstab into outlets and switches. “Take the extra time, run the conduit, pull stranded wire, tie it down properly under the screws. You won’t have problems, but if you ever do just pull out the old wire pulling in new wire and you will have more than paid for any increase in the original cost by not having to tear your wall apart and put it back together.”

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
You say it's there, but I don't see any bond/EGC. Also depending on inspectors mood bond bushings would be required here. So I always used bond bushings to avoid redoing work or having a customer think I did it wrong.

It can be harder to see since it's below everything. It's a piece of 6awg solid. Here's where it lands in the new sub.


Heading over to the original panel.


Exiting into the original panel.


Terminating in the original panel.